Police Suggestion See results of IA's even if there is no punishment

[Inchs]

Suggestion Title: See results of IA's even if there is no punishment
Suggestion Description: Be able to see the outcomes on IA's even if you don't get punished

Why should this be added?:
- Useful feedback for officers on any actions taken on them
- Officers can improve conduct even if theres no punishment

What negatives could this have?:
- Needs coding

 

[Niko]

If the reporter can see the outcome, let the reportee see the outcome as well
It genuinely irritates me that I cannot see the outcome of IAs on me

 

[Fielding]

Ive been for this since i got ia command back in what, 2018 or 2019. ia complaints are WAY too confidential, all it does is cause stress and half the time you dont even know what you did wrong

 

[Mallard]

Firstly, what do you mean by results? That could mean what the CC voted, the decided option (IE sustained, unsustained, or exonerated), or what the punishment is. As far as I'm aware both the complaint creator and the accused officer already see both the decided option and the punishment given.
Secondly, if there was no punishment then that means the complaint was unfounded, exonerated, or unsustained, why would you need to see the results of that?

 

[Inchs]

Firstly, what do you mean by results? That could mean what the CC voted, the decided option (IE sustained, unsustained, or exonerated), or what the punishment is. As far as I'm aware both the complaint creator and the accused officer already see both the decided option and the punishment given.
Secondly, if there was no punishment then that means the complaint was unfounded, exonerated, or unsustained, why would you need to see the results of that?

Its useful for officers to receive positive feedback when they haven't done something wrong

 

[Bnjemann]

You are already told if a complaint is exonerated, sustained, not sustained and unfounded, this information alone will let you know if you need to take further action, if the complaint was deemed lawful, or if action was taken.

 

[Rick F.]

I agree totally with this suggestion. If you got an IA on you and you get punished. You wont get any feedback on what you actually did wrong and need to improve. It is obviously if you did something wrong what is an easy case but if it is a more difficult IA you dont exactly know.

 

[Fielding]

You are already told if a complaint is exonerated, sustained, not sustained and unfounded, this information alone will let you know if you need to take further action, if the complaint was deemed lawful, or if action was taken.

You dont. I just got a message "Complaint on you is closed" not "sustained" "unfounded" "exonorated" etc

 

[Fielding]

and what should be given is;

Outcome and Positive or constructive feedback.

 

[A1L]

You dont. I just got a message "Complaint on you is closed" not "sustained" "unfounded" "exonorated" etc

You usually can just contact someone in IA and they'll probably tell you

 

[nutrient10]

Wouldn't ever call this suggestion a priority but it does make perfect sense to add this at some point as it can be a bit confusing if you just see "A complaint on you has been closed." without the actual outcome. Alternatively, you will just see that an infraction has been added to your record.

This reminds me of an IA made against me just over 4 years ago where I received a notification that "A complaint on you has been closed" so I thought it was exonerated but I only found out within the past couple of years that the complaint was actually sustained but whoever was PSD at that time forgot to send me the comment card. I understand this isn't quite the same thing when it was primarily the fault of somebody forgetting to actually give me the comment card but I'm trying to highlight how it can be a bit confusing in some circumstances when just telling you a few more words can make everything so much more informative

 

[Inchs]

Wouldn't ever call this suggestion a priority but it does make perfect sense to add this at some point as it can be a bit confusing if you just see "A complaint on you has been closed." without the actual outcome. Alternatively, you will just see that an infraction has been added to your record.

This reminds me of an IA made against me just over 4 years ago where I received a notification that "A complaint on you has been closed" so I thought it was exonerated but I only found out within the past couple of years that the complaint was actually sustained but whoever was PSD at that time forgot to send me the comment card. I understand this isn't quite the same thing when it was primarily the fault of somebody forgetting to actually give me the comment card but I'm trying to highlight how it can be a bit confusing in some circumstances when just telling you a few more words can make everything so much more informative

For me I think its rewarding good conduct if its a stressful situation and you do well

 

[Casey Heller]

Down for this, IA should also be able to utilize Trainers (or vice versa) to further improve officer conduct. After the investigation is finished the IA investigator should have the option to tick a box to refer the case to the defendants appropriate trainer team.

Could open pathways for officers to rehabilitate instead of crashing after a simple error or an aids situation.

 

[Bnjemann]

Down for this, IA should also be able to utilize Trainers (or vice versa) to further improve officer conduct. After the investigation is finished the IA investigator should have the option to tick a box to refer the case to the defendants appropriate trainer team.

This shows that you have a general misunderstanding of how IA Complaints work.

IA’s aren’t resolved by investigators, they are investigated by them, at which point the IA investigator says their opinion on the matter, having options to pick from on recommended action, and what the infraction should say.

The Complaints committee, which is made up by past and present Command members then vote on the complaint with the outcome the majority of the group feel would be the best course of action to take, a Senior CC member then notes down what everyone voted, what a record check on the user shows up with, what they think the intentions were, and select an option to issue if the complaint is accepted.

Amongst these options, corrective action is there.

In regards to trainers, The command teams of the divisions the user belongs to and what division they were acting under when they received the infractions can do exactly as you described.

Tl;dr: This is already a thing, it’s just IA aren’t the ones training them.

 

[Fielding]

You usually can just contact someone in IA and they'll probably tell you

oh sheeesh maybe make it a bit more like know i guess? so people know what they can do and not if that makes sense

 

[Fielding]

Down for this, IA should also be able to utilize Trainers (or vice versa) to further improve officer conduct. After the investigation is finished the IA investigator should have the option to tick a box to refer the case to the defendants appropriate trainer team.

Could open pathways for officers to rehabilitate instead of crashing after a simple error or an aids situation.

I will say, it is allowed for a IA Officer to recommend a training and we do do this. We also can place officers on probationary Officer for supervised patrols, at the authorization of Complaint Comittee tho.

 

[Fielding]

This reminds me of an IA made against me just over 4 years ago where I received a notification that "A complaint on you has been closed" so I thought it was exonerated but I only found out within the past couple of years that the complaint was actually sustained but whoever was PSD at that time forgot to send me the comment card. I understand this isn't quite the same thing when it was primarily the fault of somebody forgetting to actually give me the comment card but I'm trying to highlight how it can be a bit confusing in some circumstances when just telling you a few more words can make everything so much more informative

Just happened to me but i got no message if it was sustained or not or what happened

 

[Casey Heller]

This shows that you have a general misunderstanding of how IA Complaints work.

IA’s aren’t resolved by investigators, they are investigated by them, at which point the IA investigator says their opinion on the matter, having options to pick from on recommended action, and what the infraction should say.

The Complaints committee, which is made up by past and present Command members then vote on the complaint with the outcome the majority of the group feel would be the best course of action to take, a Senior CC member then notes down what everyone voted, what a record check on the user shows up with, what they think the intentions were, and select an option to issue if the complaint is accepted.

Amongst these options, corrective action is there.

In regards to trainers, The command teams of the divisions the user belongs to and what division they were acting under when they received the infractions can do exactly as you described.

Tl;dr: This is already a thing, it’s just IA aren’t the ones training them.

Was an IA investigator for a short amount of time.
I know how IAs and CC work.

I'm just suggesting that IA can suggest different sorts of training along with their decision, or, in place of traditional punishment.

 

[Niko]

You are already told if a complaint is exonerated, sustained, not sustained and unfounded, this information alone will let you know if you need to take further action, if the complaint was deemed lawful, or if action was taken.

A complaint on my alt account was closed yesterday, but I was not informed of the outcome whatsoever. I was also not provided any information on what I could do or who I could contact to see the outcome.
But the person that made the complaint can see that, for some reason. I don’t even need to see who reported me, who the investigator was, case id, none of that. All I want to see is the outcome of an IA on me.

It makes no sense for the person receiving the IA to be kept in the dark or being required to contact a member of IA to find the outcome of a complaint on them. I can only imagine the confusion of newer players whenever an IA on them is closed and they have no idea what the outcome is or how to find out

 

[northnortheast]

A complaint on my alt account was closed yesterday, but I was not informed of the outcome whatsoever. I was also not provided any information on what I could do or who I could contact to see the outcome.
But the person that made the complaint can see that, for some reason. I don’t even need to see who reported me, who the investigator was, case id, none of that. All I want to see is the outcome of an IA on me.

Totally agree here. I had to open an IA helpdesk ticket to figure out the result of a complaint on me, and got this response:

Hello,

The complaint was exonerated by the Complaint Committee.

The website currently has no feature where you are informed of specific outcomes of a complaint so if the complaint was closed and you did not receive another notification informing you of receiving an infraction or a PM with a comment card, it is safe to assume that it was closed with no further action.

Given the importance of transparency between Internal Affairs and the officers that it is investigating, it serves well to keep them in in the know about the status of their complaint.

I found that the Internal Affairs system as a whole seems to unnecessarily keep the defendant and witnesses in the dark about information. I was asked to give a statement (as a witness) a few months back, and the only information I was given was the bare minimum: a vague time and location, and a generic scene description of a fairly frequent type of situation, all of this over a week earlier. After asking for more information about the incident, such as the names of the officer in question, or the time zone that the listed time was in (it was not my local time for some reason), I got no response.