The Philando Castile & Alton Sterling incident. Opinions? Racism card?

[Smeris]

warning: The following topic contains graphical footage and senstive topics. If you are easily triggered or freightenend by these topics and material, dont bother.
repect each others opinion. Don't flame eachother, if this thread becomes a war it will instantly be closed @John Daymon
Do NOT throw dumb ratings at eachother
this is NOT an arguement thread. post opinions. do not make unneccesary arguements.

Spoiler

So recently two incidents involving "police brutality" occoured, both Philando Castille and Alton Sterling were killed by officers over what has been brought up to the media as an accident.
Very unfortunate and sad for both. I will begin with The story on Philando.
He got pulled over for a broken tail light in the car, Philando tells the officer he carries a weapon and is licensed to do so. Lad gets 4 bullets or something in the chest, with his little daughter and gf next to him.
Alton sterling was apprehended and floored for an unkown reason, altough it appears Alton was quite pissed and not extremely cooperative he did not show any threat on camera. You hear the word "GUN" and moments later the lad has 5 bullets in the chest

Footage (GRAPHIC)

Spoiler: philando

Spoiler: Alton

These events are exremely sad, but there's more to the matter.

Is it fair that the media just pulled the racism card? Were the officers trulely in the wrong or did Alton reach for something? Can the media just blame it on racism, or are they hiding something?i really want to hear your opinions.

 

[John Daymon]

I do not believe this should be discussed on this forum, a lot of sides from certain members have been shown before where it led to them either quitting the community or just them getting loads of hate.

 

[KeiwaM]

With the current situation and the gun laws in america I can't blame the first one. He could be reaching for his gun and the video honestly doesn't show enough to judge it.

The second video I really can't tell wether or not the officer made the right decision. We can't say for sure if the guy were attempting to get a knife or perhaps already had it in his hands. 5 bullets is a bit much though. I Think he'd be apprehended after the first 2 bullets.

Is it because of racism that they did it? I Highly doubt it. As I said earlier, the current situation in the US doesn't make it easier. School shootings and The orlando shootings doesn't make it easier to decide.

Overall, we can't judge the officer based on these videos. Not enough information as I see it but the media shouldn't instantly pull the "Racism Card"

 

[Smeris]

With the current situation and the gun laws in america I can't blame the first one. He could be reaching for his gun and the video honestly doesn't show enough to judge it.

The second video I really can't tell wether or not the officer made the right decision. We can't say for sure if the guy were attempting to get a knife or perhaps already had it in his hands. 5 bullets is a bit much though. I Think he'd be apprehended after the first 2 bullets.

Is it because of racism that they did it? I Highly doubt it. As I said earlier, the current situation in the US doesn't make it easier. School shootings and The orlando shootings doesn't make it easier to decide.

Overall, we can't judge the officer based on these videos. Not enough information as I see it but the media shouldn't instantly pull the "Racism Card"

Agreed on the racism card. Whilst in the first video the person said he was going to get his ID and paperwork. I believe the officer had enough time to decide what he was going to do, or should atleast ask the person to give the firearm to the officer.
However (And this will be important to everyone)
The officer sounded extremely frightened after he shot the person, a missed fact by media or done on purpose? I assume an officer wouldn't be in such a panic if he only warped to his ID

 

[DilanTheSkrub]

I don't think this should be discussed on the forums. This community consists of teenagers and kids that play RolePlay servers for fun, the last thing we want to do is show them men being shot by officers on camera.
I'm not really that bothered about talking about it, but please remove the videos. We don't want to permanently mentally scar anybody like Finley or Teemo.

 

[Smeris]

I'm not really that bothered about talking about it, but please remove the videos. We don't want to permanently mentally scar anybody like Finley or Teemo.

warning: The following topic contains graphical footage and senstive topics. If you are easily triggered or freightenend by these topics and material, dont bother

I don't think this should be discussed on the forums. This community consists of teenagers and kids that play RolePlay servers for fun, the last thing we want to do is show them men being shot by officers on camera.

repect each others opinion. Don't flame eachother, if this thread becomes a war it will instantly be closed

"If anything of such or even sign of it happends feel free to delete it. "

 

[MrAaron]

This thread will cause what happened to Robin Ljungberg and others, delete this.

 

[Moon The Goon]

I'm gonna be straight up, and i don't really want to go into an argument about it, as it's my opinion i believe the second one may be a bit harsh but kinda valid. The man was resisting and getting really violent he did pull his gun out and he did aim it, as he shouldn't have, however, he did warn the guy and he kept on resisting resulting in him getting shot.

This does not make it right, and i do not think this was acceptable.

Please no arguments.
--------------------------------------EDIT-------------------------------------------------------------
People are saying Tazer's should be okay. But if you read properly, i said it wasn't right to aim his gun at him like that and yes i agree he should have had a tazer out, but that what makes this situation not acceptable as i said.

 

[joR]

Videos like this are crazy and so morbid, it's quite distressing actually watching the officers reaction on video. I don't think people realize that most cops don't fire their gun outside of the shooting range so it's not a decision the officer's made off the bat. It's quite a shame that the media have to report it the way they have done, really it's best for everyone to wait for the investigation. Here's my two cents; in the video:

Spoiler: GRAPHIC CONTENT

https://vid.me/BAiz

You see throughout the video that the suspect is reaching for something and the cop on top of him keeps grabbing his hand, you even hear that officer shout "Mike he's going for the gun". Again it's crazy that people will brush off the idea that American cops will happily shoot someone without forethought, I mean you see this situation first hand what has happened and the officers reaction... Thoughts are certainly with the officers involved. But again, it's probably best letting the professionals handle this rather than people speculating on what the media have published.

 

[Allen Kennedy]

Alright, I'm gonna toss in my two cents.

In the first instance, if there was fair warning, and his gun was next to his ID, then steps could have been taken to make the situation mutually safer, such as the officer asking the man to step out of the vehicle and stand against the car while the officer retrieved the man's firearm from behind him.

In the second instance, honestly, it's hard to say whether the man was reaching for a weapon or not. If he was, and I doubt it would be a firearm. Judging by the object the officer retrieved from him after the shooting, it may have been a switchblade of some kind. Even if he was going for a knife, unless the situation was life-threatening, which, from my perspective, it did not look like it, the firearm should not have been used. Like several people have already said, a taser would have been better suited to that situation. Also, the guy was pissed, so he was likely not going to listen to orders anyway, and the officers should have realised this.

The whole race card thing the media have pulled, to sensationalise the whole thing, is plain fucking retarded, it is highly unlikely that the officers would shoot these men for being black. You can tell in the first instance that the officer is honestly quite scared, from his tone of voice, and body language.

The way I see it, they were just paranoid, and didn't want to take any risks, understandable, but they made a colossal mistake, and the blame rests squarely on their shoulders.

 

[joR]

Alright, I'm gonna toss in my two cents.

In the first instance, if there was fair warning, and his gun was next to his ID, then steps could have been taken to make the situation mutually safer, such as the officer asking the man to step out of the vehicle and stand against the car while the officer retrieved the man's firearm from behind him.

In the second instance, honestly, it's hard to say whether the man was reaching for a weapon or not. If he was, and I doubt it would be a firearm. Judging by the object the officer retrieved from him after the shooting, it may have been a switchblade of some kind. Even if he was going for a knife, unless the situation was life-threatening, which, from my perspective, it did not look like it, the firearm should not have been used. Like several people have already said, a taser would have been better suited to that situation. Also, the guy was pissed, so he was likely not going to listen to orders anyway, and the officers should have realised this.

The whole race card thing the media have pulled, to sensationalise the whole thing, is plain fucking retarded, it is highly unlikely that the officers would shoot these men for being black. You can tell in the first instance that the officer is honestly quite scared, from his tone of voice, and body language.

The way I see it, they were just paranoid, and didn't want to take any risks, understandable, but they made a colossal mistake, and the blame rests squarely on their shoulders.

I haven't seen the first part actually so I'll need to check that out. Was it confirmed what the object was that was taken out? The problem is, the situation they were in could of been justified to be in an area of deadly force in the use of force continuum as they're rolling around on the floor and they believe he's reaching for a gun and an officer says "Mike he's going for his gun" if the police were to drop down a level on the use of force continuum and maybe try a less than lethal such as a taser, what would of happened if the taser failed to deploy? Barbs failed to attach? Male was intoxicated by drink or drugs where the taser would have little to no effect? But yeah, from what I gathered they knew it was a gun in his pocket(?)

EDIT:

Sorry one more thing, you mention that the situation doesn't seem life threatening? They're in the worst possible state, rolling around on the floor with someone and they know/suspect(?) that the subject has a firearm and he is reaching for said object. To me that certainly seems like a life threatening situation.

 

[Tyla Jai]

I think the racism argument of this is a load of bollocks, in my opinion: it's just a complete lack of training of the majority of police officers as they are pretty well equipped to deal with situations like these and i'm just glad we don't have coppers like that over here. I'm not exactly a professional on what force would have been reasonable but I still strongly disagree that this was fuelled by racism.

 

[Allen Kennedy]

Sorry one more thing, you mention that the situation doesn't seem life threatening? They're in the worst possible state, rolling around on the floor with someone and they know/suspect(?) that the subject has a firearm and he is reaching for said object. To me that certainly seems like a life threatening situation.

I see your point Jordan, if he was going for a confirmed firearm, then fair enough, but I do find it hard to believe, as the officer retrieved an item from the suspect IIRC, which looked a bit like a switchblade, which leads me to believe that he didn't have a gun, only a knife. It is entirely possible when the officer mentioned the suspect was going for a firearm, it may have been he was trying to reach for an officer's firearm also, unlikely, I agree, but plausible.

 

[KeiwaM]

SO there's been quite an escalation in the protests caused by these shootings. Protests in Dallas, New York, Chicago & Los Angeles and sadly the protest in Dallas has escalated. During the protest two males fired sniper shots at the police in their back. 5 Police officers have been killed, 5 wounded officers and one wounded civilian.

The Dallas Police hunted them down and caught one sniper, two people assisting them and the last sniper committed suicide after being hunted down in to a garage. He claimed to have put down bombs several places in Dallas and the police are now investigating though after several hours nothing have been found.

EDIT: Video below shows one of the gunmen firing a semi-automatic weapon.

 

[Death Howl]

You know what they say about media, Don't trust it when they can just edit the footage and twist your perception of it.

Officers face alot of danger in america even pranking pulling a gun on them can mean your death that is how bad it is. Blame the gangs not the police.