Action Request (MacHams)

[Wescott]

Your Steam Name: Wescott
Your Roleplay Name: Oliver Wescott
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:86412001

Player's Steam Name: MacHams
Player's Roleplay Name: Machams Murphy
Player's SteamID: https://bans.perpheads.com/player/

Why should this player be punished?: 2.5 -I had a large shop set up at Hungriges selling furniture, me and a few others were getting ready to go raiding when someone walked in. Someone who was going raiding with us who isn't part of our org decided to mug him on my property while I was crafting away from the mugging, completely uninvolved. They take the man's money, and he runs off. Later I come back to my store completely burnt, all the items I'm selling destroyed and them lurking around.

Three people threw Molotov cocktails (https://gyazo.com/6b9c9847bc68f2349fdf948117445706) I can only add one to the report, so I added the first person to throw one.

Evidence Link:

 

[Ezza]

@MacHams @Treeman @oL] Blue Can you all explain why you molotoved the shop?

 

[Locksmith]

-Involved
So me Wescott, William Dee(I Think?) and Anton Diago were all planning to go raid,when Treeman came into the shop,where someone zipties Treeman(I am unsure if treeman was gunpointed or just accepted because there is 3 of us with guns, no one ever said anything like Hands up) So people Look into what he was carrying on his person,including myself,i believe Anton then takes something from Treeman and then runs off,Nothing comes of this as Anton was never killed by Treeman or any of his friends.Although Wescotts shop was Moltoved due to it being the place of robbery(Unsure why that means Wescott has to be Effected by their actions)

 

[Treeman]

Sorry for the late reply despite being tagged in this I didn't receive a notification of being mentioned.

On the 22nd April I visited the B&Q Store at Hungriges Schwein, like seen in the video, in order to purchase Image Boards and Wooden Fences. I was happy to see the owner in the store since I he wasn't displaying these items so I was gonna ask him if I could place an order. Once I entered I however also saw his large friendgroup all armed with rifles with one man pointing the gun at me while jokingly talking about mugging me, which made me feel very uncomfortable. Regardless I tried to talk the owner saying "Lad" and trying to type that I was going to place an order. While typing that however someone tried to place me in zipties.
I was kinda shocked at first, but in accordance with 5.1 I had to accept the tying which then prompted several of the gang members to search through my personal items. I was then robbed of 10.000$ which they claimed they would return to me. However they did not as someone else took the money and ran off. Fed up and honestly fearing for worse stuff to happen I angrily ran off. All this was happening with the store owner present, hearing and seeing me being mugged on his property by his friends.

Following this I tried to see if any of my organization members were online, which they were not. So I contacted members of the Salamanca Family, which is allied to my org, saying that I want to act in retaliation for being robbed of 10.000$. @MacHams and @oL] Blue responded to that after a few minutes.

At that point in time I had the following in-character knowledge: Several armed men, including Jack Locks who I know from the FD, mugged me in the property of Oliver Wescott who was present of the duration of me being mugged inside his store by his friends.

We walked back to the store to find it empty. With no further information on any of the people that mugged me other than some dudes and a female we decided to molotov the store as retaliation of me being robbed of my 10k within the store with Wescott present. Machams left a hint in /advert chat so that they would return to the store and we finished watching from a distance.

I don't believe our, or my, actions were in breach of rule 2.5 due to the experience of being mugged inside Oliver Wescotts store by his friends. Having no further information about the wherabouts we retailiated against the group as a whole by attacking the property in which I was mugged in.
If it is however decided that I have acted against the rules the punishment should be handed to me only, as I was the one getting the other two involved.

 

[Ezza]

@Wescott Let me know your thoughts on the above reply.

 

[Wescott]

@Wescott Let me know your thoughts on the above reply.

During this whole thing I was crafting and not really paying attention, if I was involved or interacting with the guy who was zip-tied then I can understand why the shop could be burnt down. You wouldn't torch someones bazaar or business shop if you were mugged on their open property by someone who wasn't the owner. After I finished crafting and found out that they took your money I had a go at them for doing it on my property and told them to give it back.

I'm annoyed because I spent 100's of thousands and multiple hours crafting and getting everything set up to have it burnt down by people I didn't do anything to, I lost loads of items and it ruined something I spent a week planning and executing.

 

[Treeman]

I don't wish to go into arguing as I don't wish to be disrespectful. But you obviously saw and heard me being zip tied. You actively talked during this altercation aswell. From my point of view there was no doubt you are affiliated with the gentlemen. Hence my actions. I am sorry for grief I caused but you shouldn't tolerate people mugging me in your shop. Especially since you advertised that no guns are allowed in the store in your post.

Either way I will leave it up to staff to decide.

 

[Wescott]

I don't wish to go into arguing as I don't wish to be disrespectful. But you obviously saw and heard me being zip tied. You actively talked during this altercation aswell. From my point of view there was no doubt you are affiliated with the gentlemen. Hence my actions. I am sorry for grief I caused but you shouldn't tolerate people mugging me in your shop. Especially since you advertised that no guns are allowed in the store in your post.

Either way I will leave it up to staff to decide.

Okay other than telling them not to do it and find and return your stuff what else could I of done?

If I was to shoot at four armed guys to defend you I wouldn’t be following 3.4, I’m not even sure I had a gun in me at the time.

If I had no possible way to prevent it and took every action after it to get them to return your stuff why should I be punished especially when I’m not involved?

 

[Treeman]

I obviously wouldn't expect you to shoot your friends in order to stop them from mugging me. However I believe more could've been done by you in order to stop this from happening. A simple "Guys stop mugging someone in my store" would've probably worked wonders.

 

[Wescott]

I obviously wouldn't expect you to shoot your friends in order to stop them from mugging me. However I believe more could've been done by you in order to stop this from happening. A simple "Guys stop mugging someone in my store" would've probably worked wonders.

There was, the others would attest to me telling them to give the money back but at the point I was aware they actually mugged you and took your money you had ran off. I can provide video of us all running out to try and find you to give it back in addition to informing them to no mug people on my property.

Edit: At the end of the video you can see everyone running to find you.

I personally feel you just wanted to burn it down, saw a opportunity to cause a large amount of damage and through little thought for the rules and those actually involved, gathered a group of people and went for it. It was clear from yours or your friends comment on the B&Q post that you thought I was involved in the mugging which is what you claim your reason for burning the place down was and now that there is evidence to counteract that claim your trying to find another reason to justify you and your friends actions.

If you watch the video you can clearly see that I was firstly in storage and crafting when you were being zip tied and mugged and only when I got to the crafting table more than halfway through the mugging is when I actually get a chance to notice what's going on, beyond the point of being able to do anything as I didn't see any gun pointing etc just the zip ties and the /me for inventory search.

I believe this is a textbook break of rule 2.5 because you had no previous interaction with me, especially a negative one as we didn't exchange any words or actions and I was in your vicinity for a matter of seconds throughout the whole ordeal. In addition to this I had no weapon on me.

 

[Treeman]

To claim that I just wanted to burn it down is not only false but illogical. I previously visited the store and bought several items and tried to purchase more so I don't see why I would have prior intent of just burning it down.

As you can see in the video I was mugged in your store by a group associated with you which was to me clearly your friend group. That was a very negative experience and is why I left the comment you posted up there. As I had no in-character information and no leads on whereabouts or peoples names, me and two allies retaliated against the group in the way we have done so.

I think I have stated my POV enough and I don't want to make this thread any larger than it needs to be. I once again apologize for grief caused but do not believe I have broken 2.5 as there was clearly a negative experience.

 

[Ellie]

@Treeman , did he or did he not tell the people who searched you/took items not to do so and to give it back?

Do you have a clip of your POV where we can hear what @Wescott is saying?

 

[Wescott]

@Treeman , did he or did he not tell the people who searched you/took items not to do so and to give it back?

Do you have a clip of your POV where we can hear what @Wescott is saying?

Let me see if someone else who was there has the clip because you can't hear my voice in my demo recordings.

 

[Ellie]

@MacHams you have been active on the forums several times since the AR but failed to provided your side.

You have 24 hours.

 

[Treeman]

@Treeman , did he or did he not tell the people who searched you/took items not to do so and to give it back?

Do you have a clip of your POV where we can hear what @Wescott is saying?

To my knowledge he did not. I can try to provide my POV next thursday since I am not in my flat until then.

 

[Ellie]

To my knowledge he did not. I can try to provide my POV next thursday since I am not in my flat until then.

This will close within the next 24 hours.

You had 12 days to provide evidence to support your claims and if I don't get it we will act on the evidence we have now.

 

[MacHams]

chris called us asking us to help him retaliate after he was mugged then when we got there we looked for them at hungries. Could not find them so we put the place on fire

 

[Ellie]

This AR have been closed due little evidence. May be opened again when the user provide a clip of @Wescott tellign his friends to stop/give money back to @Treeman .