Action Request (malekisweird)

[Mr_Lumberton]

Your Steam Name: Mr_Lumberton
Your Roleplay Name: Robert Lumber
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:801631282

Player's Steam Name: malekisweird
Player's Roleplay Name: Omar Asfour
Player's SteamID: STEAM_0:0:137872891

Why should this player be punished?: I went into city hall office to assassinate the mayor but when I got there, there was already a raiding party inside trying to kill the mayor. We made it obvious we were there for the same reason and we were friendly. However, one of the raiders said that I had to leave because I was in a rival org to his. Bare in mind he was the only one in that rival org raiding, the rest of them were not rivals with my org. I was shocked to why he wanted me to leave because I had never spoken to him but after 20 seconds of confusion I started to leave. The guy decided to run after me and shoot me, killing me whilst I was walking away. I had gained a significant amount of distance between them when he ran after me whilst I was walking away and shot me dead. I didn't have a gun out or anything. I was fully cooperating. The message that the mayor had been assassinated hadn't come up yet so I was unaware the raid was over. I didn't immediately run away when he gunpointed me because I came with another guy and wasn't sure who he was talking to. I never heard him say that I wasn't welcome. I went with another player who was with me the whole time prior and who also never heard that I wasn't allowed to come as he would have told me. I said "you don't have to be a prick about it" whilst I was already walking away from him when he decided to run after me saying "you wanna talk shit". As I continued to walk away, he shot me with my back turned to him.

Evidence Link: https://bans.perpheads.com/demos/2999

 

[MalekIsWeird]

You should provide actual evidence if you want to accuse me of breaking rules and list what rule(s) you believe I broken.

 

[Mr_Lumberton]

2.5

Excessive Negativity​

• Killing a player over verbal insults, minor or accidental actions.

 

[A1L]

You should provide actual evidence if you want to accuse me of breaking rules and list what rule(s) you believe I broken.

He has provided a demo link, can you reply to what he's said in his original post? Your reply isn't really useful

 

[Collier]

@Coomstains You can be heard saying "You told us to come" when entering City Hall and speaking to the raiders, could you please shed more light on who invited you to the raid?

 

[Coomstains]

yes i don't know if i have a clip, i can look an see i guess but from my knowledge when we planned the assassination at bazaar all players including myself, robert, omar and the others were all present talking about the said assassination. An from what I know Omar seemed to be leading the situation, which he was indeed telling everyone to "come lets go" robert and i had to travel there separatley as the vehicle they took was full. but robert was never told then to not come, in fact it appeared to be the opposite. when we got there though, Omar gunpointed us both and told us to leave and when i reminded of said prior interaction, he specified that he only meant robert. Which makes me assume the only reason Omar didnt want him there then was because they were rivals. I imagine omar likely did not realize they were rivals at bazaar or maybe just should have clarified more when we were there. But thats about all i know hope that helps ill see if i have any clips of it, but i honestly doubt it didnt think id need one as i hadnt really done any pvp, pvp was basically over by the time my slow car got us there XD

 

[Coomstains]

yes i don't know if i have a clip, i can look an see i guess but from my knowledge when we planned the assassination at bazaar all players including myself, robert, omar and the others were all present talking about the said assassination. An from what I know Omar seemed to be leading the situation, which he was indeed telling everyone to "come lets go" robert and i had to travel there separatley as the vehicle they took was full. but robert was never told then to not come, in fact it appeared to be the opposite. when we got there though, Omar gunpointed us both and told us to leave and when i reminded of said prior interaction, he specified that he only meant robert. Which makes me assume the only reason Omar didnt want him there then was because they were rivals. I imagine omar likely did not realize they were rivals at bazaar or maybe just should have clarified more when we were there. But thats about all i know hope that helps ill see if i have any clips of it, but i honestly doubt it didnt think id need one as i hadnt really done any pvp, pvp was basically over by the time my slow car got us there XD

Omar did only shoot him over insults, but to be fair in that it was still an active situation as they were unsure of anymore PD responding, hence why he gunpointed him and told him to leave, I don't exactly think standing there and calling the man with a gun pointed at u a "prick" is wise. But again rules are rules, but im not sure if its considered a rule break bc the circumstances were much more diverse than just a simple insult, as the reasoning for killing was over an insult, yes, it doesnt change the fact that the situation at hand itself was a much bigger picture than a simple insult.

 

[Coomstains]

from what ive seen and been told by staff, the rules are never a one size fits all, so sometimes things get tricky in situations such as this, but imo i don't think this could be considered a rule break on omars part

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Omar did only shoot him over insults

As his demo clearly shows the shooting, I will happily provide by POV to showcase myside:

Mr_Lumberton. You were specifically told by me "you're not welcome" at bazaar when I was gathering my 3 other teammates and you were fully made aware of my presence in this operation. Thus, You have NO permission to enter upon an active raid where Omar Asfour, A rival gang member of your character, is already actively engaged in criminal activity. Furthermore, You decided to run in without a weapon in hand putting your life at risk. This is a clear cut breach of 3.4 on top of the clearly showcased lack of care for my threats as I shoo'ed you away with threats. I told you get out of here and yet you stood still stalling instead of immediately turning around to leave. Once you actually decided to leave after a delayed amount of time, You didn't make any real effort to leave but instead walked backwards as slowly as possible while disrespecting me with a gun to your face. I told you "You have 5 seconds get out of here" and yet all you did was exactly the opposite, you stayed for as long as you can while making a poor non-effort at evacuating as soon as possible while unarmed as a gun is aimed at your head by a rival gang member ordering you to evacuate as soon as possible all for the sake of trash talking me.

 

[Coomstains]

As his demo clearly shows the shooting, I will happily provide by POV to showcase myside:

Mr_Lumberton. You were specifically told by me "you're not welcome" at bazaar when I was gathering my 3 other teammates and you were fully made aware of my presence in this operation. Thus, You have NO permission to enter upon an active raid where Omar Asfour, A rival gang member of your character, is already actively engaged in criminal activity. Furthermore, You decided to run in without a weapon in hand putting your life at risk. This is a clear cut breach of 3.4 on top of the clearly showcased lack of care for my threats as I shoo'ed you away with threats. I told you get out of here and yet you stood still stalling instead of immediately turning around to leave. Once you actually decided to leave after a delayed amount of time, You didn't make any real effort to leave but instead walked backwards as slowly as possible while disrespecting me with a gun to your face. I told you "You have 5 seconds get out of here" and yet all you did was exactly the opposite, you stayed for as long as you can while making a poor non-effort at evacuating as soon as possible while unarmed as a gun is aimed at your head by a rival gang member ordering you to evacuate as soon as possible all for the sake of trash talking me.

Like i said im only answering these questions as to what i know, i must not have been there when that was stated which isnt a surprise as i was running around trying to find a gun to buy after you guys ran to your vehicles

 

[Coomstains]

I do not have a clip for my pov, will happily provide a demo, I'm in game right now you should be able to request it i think. Other than that I am sorry, I cannot assist any further, I believe I've already shared enough of my input. sorry for the late responses btw was afk for a bit didnt even know this was a thing tbf. Was never told by anyone about this.

 

[Coomstains]

As his demo clearly shows the shooting, I will happily provide by POV to showcase myside:

Mr_Lumberton. You were specifically told by me "you're not welcome" at bazaar when I was gathering my 3 other teammates and you were fully made aware of my presence in this operation. Thus, You have NO permission to enter upon an active raid where Omar Asfour, A rival gang member of your character, is already actively engaged in criminal activity. Furthermore, You decided to run in without a weapon in hand putting your life at risk. This is a clear cut breach of 3.4 on top of the clearly showcased lack of care for my threats as I shoo'ed you away with threats. I told you get out of here and yet you stood still stalling instead of immediately turning around to leave. Once you actually decided to leave after a delayed amount of time, You didn't make any real effort to leave but instead walked backwards as slowly as possible while disrespecting me with a gun to your face. I told you "You have 5 seconds get out of here" and yet all you did was exactly the opposite, you stayed for as long as you can while making a poor non-effort at evacuating as soon as possible while unarmed as a gun is aimed at your head by a rival gang member ordering you to evacuate as soon as possible all for the sake of trash talking me

I think genuinely robert didnt hear you say not to come. but I understood the fact that there shouldve been no hesitation to turn around and leave but i mean if its true he didnt hear u say back at bazaar not to come, i honestly understand the confusion he probably felt. Also not to mention he's stated you've had no interactions before that day, and relativley speaking robert is newish, i dont think the rivals thing over your head was enough for him to understand the in his words "being a prick" part of it. I understand as its your rival, but in roberts defense he doesnt know you, therefore he has no way to know your his rival, without using OOC info such as the red highlighted org name, which in itself is against the rules. which makes his "insults" honestly seem quite understandable, also after you ran out to make sure he was leaving i would assume , u engaged in further conversation, which i think is why he turned around to look at you, but he did keep walking out as he did so, and he didnt just "keep talking shit" he simply stated "i dont know what your problem is" and then turned around which you then shot him in the conversation, so honestly i dont see how its 3.4 on roberts end either

 

[Coomstains]

basically what im saying is in the RP situation itself, roberts character not only displayed pure confusion about the situation, but if he's correct that he was never told to come, then I would say he had good reason to be confused also giving light to the fact he doesn't know IC that omar is his rival. therefore i would say both players, roberts and omars actions were justified

 

[MalekIsWeird]

basically what im saying is in the RP situation itself, roberts character not only displayed pure confusion about the situation, but if he's correct that he was never told to come, then I would say he had good reason to be confused also giving light to the fact he doesn't know IC that omar is his rival. therefore i would say both players, roberts and omars actions were justified

I am dressed in my org outfit in my org colors and so is he, we are clearly identifiable as rivals / opps.

0:20

"get the fuck out of here"

he stalled under gunpoint for a total of 15 seconds only turning around at 0:35


Furthermore, at 0:37 he turns around to face me instead of CONTINOUING to leave as to defy and trash talk before I said anything after my several orders to leave.


Lastly, at 0:42 he saw me raise my weapon to shoot him which is the whole reason why he turned around and why he was shot in the back. He was clearly facing me in defiance of my order, He only faced me to challenge my authority in a situation where his life is clearly in my hands and only turned around to run away from the very well deserved death he was about to receive.


There is no more dissecting that needs to be done.

 

[Coomstains]

I am dressed in my org outfit in my org colors and so is he, we are clearly identifiable as rivals / opps.

0:20

"get the fuck out of here"

he stalled under gunpoint for a total of 15 seconds only turning around at 0:35


Furthermore, at 0:37 he turns around to face me instead of CONTINOUING to leave as was to face me after talking shit to the rival gunman with a gun to his head.


Lastly, at 0:42 he saw me raise my weapon to shoot him which is the whole reason why he turned around and why he was shot in the back. He was clearly facing me in defiance of my order, He only faced me to challenge my authority in a situation where his life is clearly in my hands and only turned around to run away from the very well deserved death he was about to receive.


There is no more dissecting that needs to be done.

to be honest either way ive never heard of or seen ur org before besides you (no disrespect i mean it just quite literally) so idk its whatever to me at this point, just need staff to respond

 

[Coomstains]

I am dressed in my org outfit in my org colors and so is he, we are clearly identifiable as rivals / opps.

0:20

"get the fuck out of here"

he stalled under gunpoint for a total of 15 seconds only turning around at 0:35


Furthermore, at 0:37 he turns around to face me instead of CONTINOUING to leave as was to face me after talking shit to the rival gunman with a gun to his head.


Lastly, at 0:42 he saw me raise my weapon to shoot him which is the whole reason why he turned around and why he was shot in the back. He was clearly facing me in defiance of my order, He only faced me to challenge my authority in a situation where his life is clearly in my hands and only turned around to run away from the very well deserved death he was about to receive.


There is no more dissecting that needs to be done.

I understand you recognizing him as he wears the same clothes and and hangs around the deathhounds and even runs their shops on a regular and consistent basis, i just wouldnt really expect him to recognize you

 

[Coomstains]

like i said i think both players actions were justified in this particular situation, but thats only if robert truly never originally knew he wasnt allowed to come with, according to omar he was warned at bazaar not to, I have no idea about that as I said previously I didnt have my attention fully set on them. I rest on this being my final opinion on the matter. If im needed beyond this reach out to me.

 

[Collier]

I have checked the demo, and whereas Omar can be heard saying "You can't come" at the Bazaar when this was planned, it is unclear whether or not @Mr_Lumberton took that information in, though it is hardly relevant, and will not be taken into account. That being said, @Mr_Lumberton, you were close enough to see the rival relationship when at Bazaar.

More on-topic, however, you could hear (and see) the grenade and gunfire when you pulled up to City Hall, and instead of leaving the clearly heavily armed raiding party to it, decided to enter the City Hall yourself when it was not only unnecessary to do so, but quite risky given that you weren't part of the raid party. You were then shot at, prompting you to move closer instead of backing up, then shot at again, only to move closer once more and be gunpointed to leave, which prompted you to debate the person gunpointing you, then insult him, then continue to actively antagonize him.

All of this is to day, that it is very rarely excessively negative to kill somebody who is actively uncooperative or antagonistic when being gunpointed, but is very frequently a breach of rule 3.4, as it is here.

@MalekIsWeird will not be receiving any punishments. You, however, will be receiving a warning for 3.4.

Reviewed with
@Bnjemann @Megasaw