Ban Dispute (teby)

[piesangsaregood]

Punishment Type: Ban
Punishment Subtype: Server Ban
Appeal Type: Dispute[Evidence]
Which staff member issued the punishment?: @teby
How long were you banned/blacklisted for?: 2 Weeks

Your Steam Name: piesangsaregood
Your Roleplay Name: Jermaine Lamar-cole
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:687447323

Why were you punished?: 3.18 - The user stored weapons while a shootout was on-going.

Why should this appeal be considered?: Teby told me the only reason he issued the punishment is because i did not leave right after storing the initial groups of guns i did at the back of sg. However , there was still a few guns left at sg to store and we were never given the opportunity to do so until after the defender pushed out and 1878 died. We had spent all the time inbetween this getting a car , clearing the area and forcing NLR breakers to leave. After storing the guns we leave - never makinng an attempt to break into the property and only storing guns when we knew we were not in danger. rule 3.18 states "
If your life or freedom is in imminent danger, you must not use storages, trunks, or ATMs to avoid losing items or money that you have on you. This includes removing weapon attachments." and at no point during the storing of any gun was i in any danger or fear of the loss of an item. I think it is quite dishonest to say that we are not allowed to store guns at different times even though it was obviously safe to do so in both instances.

 

[Dom/1878]

when u killed me there was still 1 of us alive inside of the base. i was driving about and shooting at u too make it unsafe for you too store guns trying to stall for people to come back from a raid. we had 2 people alive who could counter as well.

 

[piesangsaregood]

when u killed me there was still 1 of us alive inside of the base. i was driving about and shooting at u too make it unsafe for you too store guns trying to stall for people to come back from a raid. we had 2 people alive who could counter as well.

as i stated in the video , no attempt was made to break in and continue the raid and the person inside never made an attempt to push / shoot out so that is irrelivent considering our intentions of storing and leaving. The other 2 are obviously irrilevent too which i think you know.

 

[Acerius]

Reviewed with @Collier and @Marcusy

Although we appreciate the further demo footage, the ban itself only concerns with you picking up and storing the guns at the corner of PPS, which happens around 1:30 in your video, and as such that is what I will address. Before I do so, I would like to make something clear:

• If you start raiding a property and realise you have bitten off more than you can chew - you are running low on ammo or a couple of your friends have died, for example - then it is entirely reasonable to want to cut your losses and take off with any guns that are outside. This as a general principle is allowed, provided there are at least two of you where the second person can cover the entrances that a defender could push out from.

In this case, the way @Simpatik covered the rear and front entrance of Southgate so as to enable you to store the guns is absolutely fine, and means @RollSafe being alive and in the base is a non-issue. This is cemented by the fact that he made no concerted effort to stop you trying to store the guns by continuing to fire at either one of you, and he probably would have been able to tell that @Simpatik was near the rear entrance. He also had not left the base or done anything else for around 5 minutes after you stored.

The actual problem is the presence of the flanker, who was @Dom/1878. It does not matter if you knew exactly who it was, only that you knew someone was either flanking or attempting to counter. You became aware of this around 10 seconds into your video when @Simpatik calls out that he is being shot. You also acknowledge this in your video commentary, where you say you are going to go check for him around 45 seconds in.

The reason this is being denied is because you did not make a good enough effort to actually check that the flanker was gone. In fact, it was barely any effort.

In what took less than 50 seconds, you drove your car through Foundry, did a U-turn at Collier's Auto Shop, and then drove past Southgate towards where the guns were at PPS. This is simply not enough of an effort to determine that the flanker has left and is no longer a threat. The reality is that at the time you did a U-turn at Collier's, @Dom/1878 was at Car Dealership getting his Porsche out, and was hot on your heels as when you had started storing, he was positioned at Business Gas Station.

The minimum expectation would have been for you to have checked other places where the flanker could have emerged from, such as Business Plaza, near Tidals Apartments, around the other corner from PPS, and the Courtyard Drug Dealer spot. Even though @Dom/1878's attempts to flank you became few and far between after storing as we can see in the demo footage where you fired warning shots on multiple occasions, you could not have known at the time of storing or immediately before that he would have put in such a poor effort to stop you. As such, your life was still in imminent danger before and during storing at the PPS corner from @Dom/1878, and you should have gone out of your way to check that they were no longer present.

---

Some additional points that I will address based off of your footage and commentary:

• The cop you mention at 2:48 in your video is @Ragnarock, and you claimed they had NLR. The logs conclusively show they did not have NLR and had not originally responded to this incident at Southgate. Instead they went on-duty shortly after the incident had begun, and spent the majority of their time pottering about near City Storage. As such, no action will be taken.
• Gambit (no forum account) does return to the base just before you kill @RollSafe and @Dom/1878, however by this time their NLR timer had been complete for at least a minute and they spent all of their time waiting out their NLR timer in the City Sector. By the time they had arrived back to Southgate, it's unlikely they would have known that anything was still going on that would have prevented them from entering the base. As such, no action will be taken.
• .T0mo (no forum account) will receive a warning for breaching their NLR timer by being in the immediate vicinity of Southgate - both driving about and scouting/spectating - when not even half of their NLR was complete. If they had wanted to wait in the Business Sector they should have done so at Bazaar or further away.