Police Suggestion Completely allow or disallow SOs from breaching without a warrant.

[northnortheast]

@Collier (spoke about this earlier with you)
Brief description of idea:
Here is a rundown on what is currently in place:
When there is no Sergeant+ on, Corporals can use the battering ram to breach doors without a warrant necessary.
However, when there is no Sergeant+ on, Senior Officers with TFU gear can use the C2 to breach doors without a warrant necessary.

This contradicts the previous feature. If you are giving some Senior Officers access to open doors without a warrant, why not give all?

My suggestion is to do one of the following to completely clarify this:

1. Allow all Senior Officers to use the Battering Ram (and the C2) to make warrantless entry into properties when there is no Sergeant+​

This would mean equal treatment and trust bestowed on Senior Officers, as opposed to only a portion of Senior Officers.​

​

2. Prohibit Senior Officers from use of the Battering Ram (and the C2) to make warrantless entry into properties​

This would involve removing the C2 from the SO's TFU arsenal, therefore making the trust bestowed in Senior Officers equal.​

Sergeants and Corporals are given access to breach into buildings warrantless because of their expected tenure and knowledge of the Penal Code, not because of their tactical prowess (the reason TFU SOs are allowed to do so). Entrusting some officers with law and policy knowledge because they are in an unrelated sub-division, though I'm sure they're perfectly capable of making the right call, isn't reasonable and is an unfair application of trust.

What benefits would this idea have for the department:
See above. Consistency, giving SOs the powers they need or don't need, balancing of rank priveleges.

What potential negatives could this have for the department:
People complaining.

If you disagree, please leave a reply stating why thx

 

[CensoredExe]

The reason senior officers with TFU gear can breach is because they’re supposed to have had the additional training which is why they’re given that extra responsibility to be able to make that decision

 

[northnortheast]

The reason senior officers with TFU gear can breach is because they’re supposed to have had the additional training which is why they’re given that extra responsibility to be able to make that decision

So because you've got good aim and recoil control, you're entrusted with the same responsibility as the rank above? This argument makes little sense considering their training is on tactics and not tenure.

 

[Alliat]

So because you've got good aim and recoil control, you're entrusted with the same responsibility as the rank above? This argument makes little sense considering their training is on tactics and not tenure.

TFU officers are not selected for their aim and/or recoil control. You're not even marked for these points during your aplication. The focus of the TFU propgram is on aprocing situations the right way. You can be a shit shot and still become TFU if you have the right mindset and expierence.

 

[CensoredExe]

So because you've got good aim and recoil control, you're entrusted with the same responsibility as the rank above? This argument makes little sense considering their training is on tactics and not tenure.

You’re correct, their training is on tactics and situations where they must know how to act correctly, so I’m unsure why you brought up aim and recoil.
They are given the ability to do this because they have had additional training so they are trusted to be able to breach and make the decision of when and if they should breach.
This has nothing to do with aim.

 

[northnortheast]

TFU officers are not selected for their aim and/or recoil control. You're not even marked for these points during your aplication. The focus of the TFU propgram is on aprocing situations the right way. You can be a shit shot and still become TFU if you have the right mindset and expierence.

That still doesn't justify the reason that TFU Senior Officers are given an unrelated responsibility? In that case, why not give RTU Senior Officers access to use the battering ram, considering that they've got that extra experience and trustworthiness due to joining an (albeit unrealted) division?

 

[blobvis 2.0]

That still doesn't justify the reason that TFU Senior Officers are given an unrelated responsibility? In that case, why not give RTU Senior Officers access to use the battering ram, considering that they've got that extra experience and trustworthiness due to joining an (albeit unrealted) division?

This is not the point, they get access to new vehicles such as the porsche, and speed camera, it are tools that belong to that job. It is not about trust or no trust. It is about the fact taht they are getting trained to use the equipment they have, to remove it is stupid as you are literally locking stuff behind ranks even more which is unnecessary.

I absolutely disagree with this idea as it will impose only negative impact to the game and doesn't add anything positive. Adding equal rights for SO (so giving everyone battering ram options) will result in many ARs, Reports and IAs being added to the system as they are easy to breach while if they are TFU the punishment will be more sever/they are more easily identifiable.

big -support

 

[northnortheast]

I absolutely disagree with this idea as it will impose only negative impact to the game and doesn't add anything positive. Adding equal rights for SO (so giving everyone battering ram options) will result in many ARs, Reports and IAs being added to the system as they are easy to breach while if they are TFU the punishment will be more sever/they are more easily identifiable.

what.

I absolutely disagree with this idea as it will impose only negative impact to the game and doesn't add anything positive. Adding equal rights for SO (so giving everyone battering ram options) will result in many ARs, Reports and IAs being added to the system

you know this how? and why would this happen exactly? if the reason is SOs can't be trusted then why can certain SOs breach?

if they are TFU the punishment will be more sever/they are more easily identifiable.

no. the punishment would be the same regardless, both are accountable to the same IA at the end of the day. being TFU does not make a senior officer more identifiable as their only identifiers are their name and badge number.

 

[Bnjemann]

So because you've got good aim and recoil control, you're entrusted with the same responsibility as the rank above? This argument makes little sense considering their training is on tactics and not tenure.

You’re vision on what gets people into TFU is mangled. Aim is only taken into account in a TFU cycle if the user in question has laptop track pad aim. TFU are marked on ability to remain calm in situations, utilisation of tactics and using their surroundings to their advantage, communication, coordination, policy knowledge and general Patience and planning.

That still doesn't justify the reason that TFU Senior Officers are given an unrelated responsibility? In that case, why not give RTU Senior Officers access to use the battering ram, considering that they've got that extra experience and trustworthiness due to joining an (albeit unrealted) division?

TFU are given breaching charges that can be used without a warrant because in a high risk scenario where immediate entry is necessary, they can do so. It’s not because they are “trusted” More par se, it’s solely because Tactical Firearms Officers literal job is to respond to high risk situations and thus get access to the equipment to do so. Same goes for RTU getting access to police broadcast and speed cameras when other officers who share their rank don’t, it’s solely because they have a specific job and purpose to serve and thus, Are given the appropriate equipment to do so. It’s not a matter of “yOuRe gOoDeR tHaN oThEr PoLiS”, it’s a matter of the fact that they have achieved a role with a specific purpose and are granted this equipment to do so.

What makes an officer an appropriate fit for the role of senior officer has visibly declined to an obvious degree as to suit the current active player base and in my opinion it is fine how it is. A senior officer rank only grants the ability to breach without warrants if they are in Tactical Firearms Gear solely because the role entails situations such as high risk hostage situations, robberies, barricaded suspects, trapped injured citizens, etc. and thus the ability to breach a door to do so is more of a fact of the role they have taken as opposed to being a blatant given benefit of joining a specialist division.

Senior officers outside of specialist divisions shouldn’t be acting alone or calling / fronting a raid in general operations gear anyways as they are not at all equipped to do so. If there is no TFU on, or no corporal +s in a decent number (2 per suspected gunmen) a raid shouldn‘t be initiate on a property.