Warning Dispute (Super_)

[Tilin]

Punishment Type: Warning
Appeal Type: Dispute
Which staff member issued the punishment?: Super_
How long were you banned/blacklisted for?: Not Applicable

Your Steam Name: Tilin
Your Roleplay Name: Edward Field
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:73632724

Why were you banned/blacklisted?: 3.30 | User confiscated a firearm when it was not safe to do so. Almost immediately after confiscating the firearm, the user was killed by a criminal.

Why should this appeal be considered?: Whilst I should've checked around the area more, I was quite in a hurry as I was the only TFU, responding to multiple officers dying. I was at PD with no others in sight than the suspect who rushed towards. As law 4.6 states "Evidence is permitted to be confiscated if the officer is unable to watch over the evidence and leaving it where it is would risk it being tampered with by a member of the public.".

I had to immediately leave the area. The center of the shootout was regals, bank as there was a bank raid if I recall correctly. No shooters at any time, except this one moved towards PD.

There were no shots fired except that suspect during the entire time of this happening. I saw nobody else suspicious during the entire time, else I wouldn't have confiscated the weapon.

Super, in the steam chat suggested that I moved the weapon by hand into PD, which I would've done IF I didn't have to move fast to try and go help out the other officers.

To me the area appeared clear, even though I didn't spend much time checking. That is because I spent 2.5min at PD prior to that and no shots were fired in the area. "No weapons or evidence shall be confiscated by Law Enforcement when immediate harm is at risk, such as under gun fire or assailants nearby.". It says immediate harm, which I did not know I was in, since I am not psychic and not borrowing anyone's ESP.

 

[A1L]

Please provide some sort of evidence as this is a dispute.

 

[Jack Bruhross]

I was the shooter in this situation. There wasn't a bank raid it was a regals raid. You should of known this due to you attempting to snipe us at render distance from pd parking. This also makes your reasoning extreamly flawed. "I had to leave the area straight away". There was also alot more very loud shots around the area along with the whole pd's life alerts from as50 shots. I don't see how taking the weapon 15 seconds later with this reason is valid.

 

[Tilin]

I was the shooter in this situation. There wasn't a bank raid it was a regals raid. You should of known this due to you attempting to snipe us at render distance from pd parking. This also makes your reasoning extreamly flawed. "I had to leave the area straight away". There was also alot more very loud shots around the area along with the whole pd's life alerts from as50 shots. I don't see how taking the weapon 15 seconds later with this reason is valid.

During this entire time, I was being informed of it being "a bank raid" by the other officers, stating that there is a sniper inside Regals, shooting towards bank.

Making me believe that the fight is centered around bank, hence it would make no sense for anyone to push from any other angle than you were already.

There were no shots when you got shot and it seemed like the threat was centralized around bank/regals

 

[Tilin]

Please provide some sort of evidence as this is a dispute.

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/JjcaNcr6Kr4Qz/6Z8Sh1lYE3J6?invite=cr-MSxWaWIsMTUyNDU1ODY3LA
(The jerky aim we will pretend to ignore)

To explain my point of view: Whilst it's my mistake that I didn't look around, I was confident that there couldn't be anyone due to the information to me provided. I also was trying to focus on helping out as soon as I could.

The law as it's written states:

No weapons or evidence shall be confiscated by Law Enforcement when immediate harm is at risk, such as under gun fire or assailants nearby. Evidence is permitted to be confiscated if the officer is unable to watch over the evidence and leaving it where it is would risk it being tampered with by a member of the public.

I wanted to immediately leave the area, I wasn't under gun fire, nor was I aware of assailants and was confident there wasn't any. It was my mistake not checking, but nowhere does it state that you must check every corner. I knew carrying the gun inside would take significant time away, so I confiscated it on the spot.

The law by itself does not state that a police officer must secure the whole area, before confiscating, but that the police officer may not confiscate a weapon if he's aware of immediate harm.

As I was led to believe over radio by another (one or multiple) officer(s), I was told it's a bank robbery. Giving me more suspicions that they would not just leave the vault fully alone and spread out that far. That is the reason why I quickly confiscated the firearm, to rush back to the "about-to-be-announced" bank raid.

 

[Jack Bruhross]

As you are trying to use a policy to cover for a rulebreak. You don't even attempt to clear the area before taking the gun. You reload and instatly take it. So it would still mean you broke the rules lol

 

[Tilin]

As you are trying to use a policy to cover for a rulebreak. You don't even attempt to clear the area before taking the gun. You reload and instatly take it. So it would still mean you broke the rules lol

For a very vague rule, which 3.3 describes that all actions must be done realistically. The rule also describes that when you climb down from obstacles. Here's the part: ...or down-from somewhere, it must be done so slowly, carefully, and without resulting in injury to the player.

I could argue that since you sprinted off of a wall, with a gun in your hands, that was at least taller than 2m in height, that it was unrealistic, as you did not do it nor slowly, nor carefully. I'm just pointing out how it can be interpreted in many ways.

If I had a different system to secure the gun, without permanently deleting it, I would've done so. But I acted according to the law as I was going to immediately leave the area, since there was no threat (visibly or audibly), hence I confiscated the weapon.

There is also no rule regarding confiscations and it's not a policy, it's a law.

 

[Jack Bruhross]

You have the wrong guy man. I am not amy hustle. I shot you from behind you cant even see me. Although I respect and understand what you are trying to say I still don't think it should of been allowed. I won the shootout fair and square meaning I should be able to get the loot and weapons of my dead org members. We have both said our sides and will now be left to the handling staff member.

 

[Tilin]

You have the wrong guy man. I am not amy hustle. I shot you from behind you cant even see me. Although I respect and understand what you are trying to say I still don't think it should of been allowed. I won the shootout fair and square meaning I should be able to get the loot and weapons of my dead org members. We have both said our sides and will now be left to the handling staff member.

Alright.

Yeah and I see your point too, but the confiscation system is as is.

I had a similar report ingame made, where I made the same thing for the exact same reason.

Was told that since the person couldn't hear/see the conflict near them anymore, it was fine to do so, even if immediate.

 

[A1L]

 

[A1L]

If you had checked around the scene before confiscating the firearm, you would've seen that there was more assailants nearby, we believe the punishment is valid.

Reviewed with @Valentine & @Exnem