Ban Dispute (steelo)

[Hybrid]

Punishment Type: Ban
Appeal Type: Dispute[Evidence]
Which staff member issued the punishment?: steelo
How long were you banned/blacklisted for?: 5 Days

Your Steam Name: Hybrid
Your Roleplay Name: Daniel Sharpiro
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:464830279

Why were you banned/blacklisted?: 3.4 - The user killed an officer as revenge for confiscating their weapon and shooting at their vehicle.

Why should this appeal be considered?: My friend Jamal and I got shot and by a police officer called Christina unlawfully, this officer then confiscated our weapons (AK47 + Remington shotgun) unlawfully. We argued viciously for a while explaining to the officer why we were lawfully carrying the firearms, asking for a supervisor- which was eventually not granted to us. My friend and I were both outraged by this police officer's actions as we had spent a LONG time trying to aquire these weapons. I asked a friend of mine (Robin) to lend me his concelable weapon so that I could send a message to this police officer. Jamal and I decided we would do a drive-by on the officer as it meant we could get away quickly without being caught. After finding the officer we shot her after making sure she saw our faces before she died. We made sure that there were no other police around so that we would not get caught. We then drove off to a safe location to hide. My friend Robin Hash also informed me that he had hidden the DNA of Christina so that we would not be caught (proven in chat logs as of 31/07/23 at around 4:50am British time).

Rule 3.4, the one I am being punished for, states "Any actions taken by a player that may put their In-Character life, freedom from imprisonment or general well being at risk must be done so in a realistic fashion and for beneficial reasons."

I believe that through all of the precautions I took (making sure there were no police witnesses. having a getaway driver to escape quickly, using a concelable weapon, driving away immediately in case we get chased and concealing the officer's DNA so that the DNA could not be chased back to me) there was very little risk of my "freedom from imprisonment" being compromised. Therefore I think that the action of killing Christina is realistic and beneficial (as both Jamal and myself were satisfied that Christina's death put a stop to her harrassment and abuse of power which also gave us reimbursement for our confiscated weapons).

If I was too vague with describing the situation to Steelo or if I am generally confusing the rule that I broke, I apologise; but I don't understand how my actions were not justified as this officer almost killed us, confiscated over $40,000 worth of guns (that took us over 30 mins to aquire) unlawfully AND refsued to hear our case as to why we were in possesion of firearms.

A 5 day ban for this seems very odd.

 

[Deleted member 4084]

To further investigate this, we would require the following demo: perpheads_demo_2023-7-31 04-27-37. Please provide this.
I would also like to include that if you are disputing the ban length then you would have to make a staff complaint as opposed to a dispute; a dispute is there to dispute the validity of the reason rather than the length.

I would like to clarify that just because of an officer confiscated (whether legal or not) your weapons, this does not then give you the justification to kill the officer to "take revenge" nor prevent the loss. You wanted to "send a message to the police officer" and, in your own words, then went to do a drive-by. At the point you had carried this out, the weapons were gone and you couldn't recover the loss unless it was through an Internal Affairs complaint at that point.

 

[213]

As you can see, there is an ongoing raid at slums. You and your friend were both visibly armed in the vicinity of a shootout where multiple officers have died.
I was nice enough to allow you guys to store your weapons and leave the area. You both stored your guns in the trunk and complied, but as soon as I turned my back, you pulled out your guns again and tried to drive off. That is why your car got disabled and I confiscated your weapons. You have my badge number, so please feel free to make an IA.

A clip of you ignoring my commands to drop your weapon under gunpoint (3.4). You weren't fined/jailed and I think it was quite excessive for you to kill me over a gun confiscation, especially during an ongoing raid which you weren't involved in (3.4).

Untitled - Clipped with Medal.tv

Watch Untitled and millions of other Garry's Mod videos on Medal, the largest Game Clip Platform.

medal.tv

this officer then confiscated our weapons (AK47 + Remington shotgun) unlawfully. We argued viciously for a while explaining to the officer why we were lawfully carrying the firearms

Paralake Penal Code 7.3 (Possession of Offensive Weapons) states:
Any person who is in possession of any offensive weapon in a public area without a reasonable excuse commits an offence. Offensive weapons include, but are not necessarily limited to the following, firearms, baseball bats, knives, machetes, or improvised/adapted items with the intent to harm or cause damage.
Make an IA.

asking for a supervisor- which was eventually not granted to us.

Yes, I denied your supervisor request. The highest ranking officer at the time was a senior officer.

Jamal and I decided we would do a drive-by on the officer as it meant we could get away quickly without being caught. After finding the officer we shot her after making sure she saw our faces before she died. We made sure that there were no other police around so that we would not get caught.

If you wanted to be "quick," you should've killed me and left immediately instead of waiting for me to turn around to see your face. I had enough time with my slow ass typing to make a F6 of you guys loitering in the area of a shootout. Considering there were heavy shots fired with multiple officer life alerts going off, directly across the street from the police department, I fail to see the truth in your statement. You can clearly see that there was a medic up the street that can alert other officers of you killing me.

Untitled - Clipped with Medal.tv

Watch Untitled and millions of other Garry's Mod videos on Medal, the largest Game Clip Platform.

medal.tv

I think that the action of killing Christina is realistic and beneficial (as both Jamal and myself were satisfied that Christina's death put a stop to her harrassment and abuse of power which also gave us reimbursement for our confiscated weapons).

How does you killing me benefit you in anyway? It is unrealistic to stalk and kill an officer who is actively in a shootout over a gun confiscation.

Rule 3.4, the one I am being punished for, states "Any actions taken by a player that may put their In-Character life, freedom from imprisonment or general well being at risk must be done so in a realistic fashion and for beneficial reasons."

Thank you for quoting the rule that you directly violated. Your freedom wasn't at risk from imprisonment and your general well-being wasn't at risk until you killed me.

 

[Hybrid]

Here is the demo: https://anonfiles.com/U2Id7f56z4/perpheads_demo_2023_7_31_04_27_37_dem

I understand that it is unjustified to kill the officer just for confiscating our weapons, but surely if the officer shoots at us whilst we were in the car (which could have killed us) it gives us some sort of justification?

 

[213]

A 5 day ban for this seems very odd

Considering you have just returned from a 3 day ban for violating 3.4, I think Steelo's decision to ban you for 5 days was not only generous, but justified.

but surely if the officer shoots at us whilst we were in the car (which could have killed us) it gives us some sort of justification?

If I were a regular citizen shooting at you, sure that would justify a KOS. However, I was a police officer who only disabled your vehicle as you tried to drive off under GP.

I'll say this again.

Your freedom wasn't at risk from imprisonment and your general well-being wasn't at risk until you killed me. You had nothing to benefit by doing so.

 

[Hybrid]

If I were a regular citizen shooting at you, sure that would justify a KOS. However, I was a police officer who only disabled your vehicle as you tried to drive off under GP.

If this is true, I do apologise for my actions as I wasn't aware of the difference between justifications for killing citizens and officers.

 

[Aquaa]

After having reviewed your demo I was able to see @213 telling you to put your weapons away in the trunk and then for whatever reason you pulled the gun back out of the trunk right in front of her and jumped in the car. I am not sure what thought process you went through when doing this but you should have at least waited until she walked away before taking it out again.

She did shoot at the car, but clearly not in an attempt to kill you but rather to seemingly attempt to disable the vehicle to prevent you escaping after you had just re-armed yourself with a rifle in front of her. Seeing as you have an issue with this, I would advise making an Internal Affairs complaint for excessive force if you'd like - She did provide her badge number to you guys in the situation.

You lost an AK that you bought for ~$22,500 for no ones fault but your own. You literally pulled the weapon back out of the trunk in front of her like I mentioned earlier and this is what caused the whole situation.

Not only did you bring this situation upon yourself, you risked a 10 year sentence for the murder of a police officer because she confiscated a gun that she warned you to put away. It does not matter if you took precautions, this is not a proportionate escalation by any means. You can not kill police officers because they confiscated a weapon of yours.

Furthermore, your ban will be extended to 1 week for failure to comply under gunpoint which I was able to see in the demo of the situation.

@3izu @peeps @Allen Kennedy @Haris @Franko