12.2 Speeding - Levels to punishment limit

[Skudist]

What law do you wish to change:

12.2 Speeding​

Vehicles may not exceed the posted speed limit on a public road as designated by road signs.

Infraction - liable to $1,500 maximum fine.

up to 5 miles per hour above speed limit - liable to $250 maximum fine
at least 6 miles per hour but no more than 15 miles per hour above speed limit - liable to $1,000 maximum fine
at least 16 miles per hour but no more than 24 miles per hour above speed limit - liable to $2,000 maximum fine
at least 25 miles per hour above speed limit - liable to $3,500 maximum fine and asset forfeiture


Why should this change be made:

The current fine limit for speeding infractions is in many ways inadequate. It is too high for low-level, perhaps accidental speeding infractions and too low for dangerously high speeding manoeuvres.

While one may argue, that exceeding the speed limit excessively would be considered a violation of law 12.12 Reckless Driving, I believe that this thinking is basing the final punishment for such offences too much on the handling LEO's discretion. A functioning Penal Code should generally not leave punishments too much up to handling officers' discretion. A functioning Penal Code should give the citizens a clear image of what they are risking if they decide to violate a specific law. Unpredictability has no place in giving punishments for law violations.

Strict and easy to understand limits for what speeding violations end up with what punishments is the aim of this change.

 

[TaliaKuznetsova]

I think this is a good way for fines, BUT I also agree that adding to 12.12 going 15+ over is reckless. If the fines arent accepted then atleast the 15mph to 12.12 because thats about what I THINK real life cut off is. Because someone going 20-25 over is reckless even if they dont ram or drift.

 

[Mina]

I do like the idea but in situations were a vehicle is clearly speeding but you cannot get the speed of it, how would you then hand out a punishment for this law if you cannot tell how fast the vehicle was going?

 

[TaliaKuznetsova]

I do like the idea but in situations were a vehicle is clearly speeding but you cannot get the speed of it, how would you then hand out a punishment for this law if you cannot tell how fast the vehicle was going?

Just like real life you don't or use other cars as comparison or speedometer. Can't cheat like America and lie tho.

 

[Mina]

Just like real life you don't or use other cars as comparison or speedometer. Can't cheat like America and lie tho.

The law already works fine as it is. I wouldn't mind if they changed the base ticket amount then you would just add money onto that if their speed exceeds say 10+, 15+, 20+ over the limit.

 

[Bnjemann]

Speeding in excess is already specifically illegal.

12.12 Reckless Driving​

Any person who drives any vehicle with disregard for the safety of persons or property is guilty of this offence.

Misdemeanor - liable to 4 years maximum imprisonment, $3,500 maximum fine and asset forfeiture.

Adding this would just stretch out the law sheet in a real ugly looking way.


The wording of it is also pretty bad. In order to truly determine the impact of a speeding offense, simply having “going +5 over = punishment, going +15 over = bigger punishment” it should really be dependent on where it is. Going 15 mph over the limit on the Highway is going to make no difference to road safety whilst going 10 mph over the limit in a pedestrian crossing 20-35 mph zone will.

Rather than stretching out the speeding law in a manner which prevents new players from actively enforcing it correctly, I’d rather see officers just collectively realise that 12.12 is a blanket term law for anyone who does something dangerous in a car for their own convenience over road safety.

 

[Skudist]

Going 15 mph over the limit on the Highway is going to make no difference to road safety whilst going 10 mph over the limit in a pedestrian crossing 20-35 mph zone will.

Rather than stretching out the speeding law in a manner which prevents new players from actively enforcing it correctly, I’d rather see officers just collectively realise that 12.12 is a blanket term law for anyone who does something dangerous in a car for their own convenience over road safety.

In that sense, "It is an offence for a person to display behaviour that is likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress." can equally be used to charge people for speeding.

A; with the PLPD system we have, it is absolutely certain that this 12.12 catch-all principle will stay unknown to most of the PLPD until they end up getting ticketed for that offence themself. Even if the PLPD decides to make an announcement, many of the officers (especially those who are only ranked Officer) will not make use of this.

B; Leaving laws to too much LEO discretion already leads (in this case) to one officer handing out 500 $ tickets to cars that drive through Business Street as if they're a NASA rocket, and another handing tickets worth 3,000 $ with the use of 12.12 to cars that have been seen going 15 MPH too fast through the city area. You will have almost maximum inconsistency in what ticket prices are being given in the end.

In regards to your point that (as your example said) 15 MPH over the limit is different in the case it would happen on the highway. I understand your concern, however, that is also why the suggested punishment limits still say "maximum fine". An officer is still free to hand someone who was seen going 15 MPH over the speed limit on the highway something lower than someone doing the same in the city area.

I do like the idea but in situations were a vehicle is clearly speeding but you cannot get the speed of it, how would you then hand out a punishment for this law if you cannot tell how fast the vehicle was going?

That however is indeed an actual problem that would come with this. Generally, however, if you either find someone overtaking you while you are speed limited to the speed limit, you could still prove that he (at least) was going "up to 5 MPH".
On the other hand, if you see someone excessively speeding in the city, they usually have to resort to reckless driving manoeuvers (e.g. using the left lane to fully accelerate out of a corner or drifting) to maintain high speeds.

Personally, I'm happy to have different ticket prices on these, if it is believed that they may be too low or too high.

 

[curak]

If something likes this gets added, you can't just do +5 +10 +15... over the speedlimit. going 15mph faster in a 25mph zone is a bigger offense than going 15mph over the speed limit on the highway. Work with precentage or justify the +5,+10,+15.... differently for each different speedzone in the entire city, this sounds like a lot of work tho; You just cannot, realisitically, use the same punishment in each zone for every mph over the speedlimit.

 

[Skudist]

If something likes this gets added, you can't just do +5 +10 +15... over the speedlimit. going 15mph faster in a 25mph zone is a bigger offense than going 15mph over the speed limit on the highway. Work with precentage or justify the +5,+10,+15.... differently for each different speedzone in the entire city, this sounds like a lot of work tho; You just cannot, realisitically, use the same punishment in each zone for every mph over the speedlimit.

Yes, however, as speed traps are never placed on the highway, and for the most part on 35 MP/H zones, it may make more sense to focus on violations in such areas.
If automatic speed traps or speed traps that can be placed down by RTU officers become a thing, it would make sense to restart this discussion. Until then, these punishment limits are mostly suited for 35 MP/H limit areas.

 

[Ariyanqwq]

yo i always see ya'll guys speed 70 mph in a 35 zone at business street. we sometimes have to drop 1,5k tickets