Action Request (Birksy / Amr)

[Deleted member 5577]

Your Steam Name: LilChicken
Your Roleplay Name: David Carry
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:61037935

Player's Steam Name: Birksy / Amr
Player's Roleplay Name: Darcy Gibbs / Artur Sgot
Player's SteamID: STEAM_0:1:68130601 / STEAM_0:0:54631005

Why should this player be punished?: 3.4, 2.5. Both individuals decided to shoot at cops instead of putting their guns in passive and announcing themselves. They killed 2 cops leading to one of them dying. They were given plenty of time to come to the door as myself and @ModoSN announced ourselves probably more times than we ever have in our whole PLPD careers. They had no real reason to shoot cops, if they had simply come to the door like normal people and explained that they were raided instead of throwing a flashbang into the hallway for no reason and then shooting cops for no reason.

Evidence Link: https://medal.tv/clips/46691061/WOn52gV5fj9I

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https://streamable.com/w96s6t

 

[Deleted member 5577]

Making a call isn't enough, it's kinda suspicious when I see two dead people and get little to no response from an apartment. If you bothered to review the evidence you would've seen some bloke report slums 2 shooting out. You also threw a flashbang in response to us announcing ourselves so you were obviously just looking for a raid lmfao.

 

[Deleted member 5577]

@Birksy https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd....968/C0FA23B02492CDB41BBEFBA4D396FF986E658C37/ didn't announce btw

 

[amr]

Firstly, your claim of 2.5 (Excessive Negativity) is incredibly prosperous considering you entered our apartment regardless if you had announced yourself prior, with no warrant, and with just what you claim was 'valid suspicion'. Now setting the scene, we had several plants and drying stations put down, and very obvious, you entering our apartment forced us to either risk losing all our work or defend ourselves, obviously we choose the latter. I do not see how this is against 3.4 or 2.5, personally regardless of whatever the prior situation is, once you enter an apartment as an officer with your gun drawn then you very much expected to encounter some sort of resistance, and the creation of this report seems like an indignant response to failing on your attempted breach of our apartment.

 

[Deleted member 5577]

A flashbang was thrown when cops announced and then you didn't come to the door you clearly wanted a shootout

 

[amr]

Leaving the apartment would have put us in a situation where our door is wide open and you can easily go in and grab our stuff, which very much validates us staying put rather than walking outside and putting ourselves at risk of losing our stuff when we can very evidently defend it.

 

[amr]

@Birksy Not to mention it is completely contradictory since we can't see if they are actual cops or not, and we have been raided several times by people who announce themselves as officers but really aren't. Not communicating with us and instead of walking in with your gun raised is a very simple kill or be killed situation, not much to it. I'll refrain from wasting any more time attempting to argue since it seems like you truly believe yourself right, ill leave the rest to the staff.

 

[Deleted member 5577]

@amr It is really simple, you were shootout hungry and failed to comply in any meaningful way. Normal people would've come to the door or at least peaked round the corner to see if it is police instead of making me enter to discover your drugs

 

[Deleted member 5577]

@Birksy Doesn't reveal themselves to police -> Is upset when police have to enter -> Spam "Whats your badge number" in OOC | If you didn't want cops to enter why didn't you reveal yourselves? You can clearly see me trying to identify people in the apartment. Also, TFU aren't really trained in clearing entire complexes I did like one raid on slums during my training and that was a single apartment. Why would I clear the rest of the place when you were clearly hostile hence the flash and didn't reveal yourself, only shouted which could've come from any apartment.

 

[Deleted member 5577]

@Birksy I think you need to stop being so raid hungry. Cops were there to investigate a crime and you hardly cooperated instead you were ready to shoot at us and threw a flashbang. You can see in the videos we announced ourselves perfectly and you didn't move from your camping spots therefore we couldn't see you to confirm whether you were raiders or not and as per law "Law enforcement officers may enter any private property if it is necessary for the execution of their duties, Law enforcement officers may not remain on a Private Property if asked to leave by the property owner unless this would obstruct an investigation into a criminal offence, any Law enforcement officer who fails to do so commits the offence of trespassing." I can enter any property to conduct my duties, you're the one that almost had your drugs discovered. If you had simply come to the door when asked 1000000000 times I would've had no reason to enter the property. This is a clear case of 3.4 as you and Amr simply wanted someone to raid you.

 

[Super_]

So from what I've assessed from the evidence presented from here and the IA complaint so far I can see both parties to an extent being in the wrong here; let's start with the defenders. While @Birksy did yell and make a 911 call to state that they were the ones being raided, neither Birksy nor @amr made an attempt to further prove they were the defending by placing their weapons into passive stance and moving towards the door so that they were in the officers' line of sight. From there a conversation could have taken place where the defenders could have provided information to the police in order to allow them to pursue the raider and the police would not have needed to enter the property. This would have prevented the shootout between the defenders and the cops and the defenders would have likely been able to have keep their drugs hidden and safe from the police.

However on the other side of the coin I also see that the police were also in the wrong here - primarily @LilChicken as he was the Officer in Charge (OIC) and the TFO on scene. While officers did announce themselves multiple times as they entered the building it does seem to be that the 911 call and yells made by the defender were not taken fully into consideration. Furthermore LilChicken should have attempted further communication to Slums 2 before entering the property, such as directly calling out Slums 2 instead of just saying "PLPD! Show me your hands!" as this can be interpretted as the police asking any apartment inside the complex. Despite this, with the dead body being in the doorway of the property and the defenders failing to reveal themselves as previously mentioned the police are lawfully allowed to enter the property under Law 3.8 so the police's aspect of being in the wrong is more-so a policy/SOP violation rather than a rule break.

While technically speaking Birsky and Amr have somewhat violated 3.4 in this instance when looking solely at the rules, I would be satisified with closing this action request with no punishment being pursued if both parties are in agreement that the situation could have been handled better from both sides.

 

[amr]

I do obviously agree that this situation could have been handled better from both sides, personally, I wasn't even aware we were being raided until I saw Remi get shot in the doorway which put me on high alert. I thought if I had peeked outside I would've been shot too which is why I just stayed in defensive. I understand now I should have attempted to also communicate with the officers, which I wasn't sure were officers until they entered the apartment since I was the closest to the door at the time.

 

[Deleted member 5577]

Before I reply in full to your last statement, what policy or SOP do you believe I am in breach of

 

[Double J]

As under handbook, it'd be (to my best knowledge) performance of duties where you failed to recognise the defenders with the yells and 911 calls.

@Super_ may have a different opinion

 

[Super_]

Primarily 6e - Negligent Performance of Duties. Preferably I do not want this AR to turn into a discuss about PLPD policies in that scenario as that's for IA to deal with

 

[Super_]

Had a talk with you on TS so hopefully my point was clarified to be more clear.

 

[Deleted member 5577]

@Super_ I'm not sure what you mean by "I would be satisfied with closing this action request with no punishment being pursued" This would mean I'd still have to face IA when they broke the rules?

 

[Super_]

@LilChicken I mean closing the AR with no punishment through Ban/Warning/Blacklist via SCAMBan. IA is a seperate matter and it would be up to the Complaint Committee to decide if punishment is necessary for PD incidents.

 

[Deleted member 5577]

@Super_ Then no absolutely not, they broke the rules and deserved to be punished. I broke no policies whatsoever as my actions were just reactions to their poor conduct from a rules point of view.

 

[Super_]

@Birksy has been spoken to regarding the incident and I have advised him how to handle future situations similar to this. @amr understands the incident but I see no major issues with his actions