Server Suggestion Ammo Efficiency

[MalekIsWeird]

Suggestion Title: Ammo Efficiency
Suggestion Description: clicking on a loaded but not full magazine will unload it and make a ammo box out of the ammo extracted just like a normal ammo box.

Additionally if one drags one such magazine into another magazine then the magazine dragged unto will be filled up using the ammo within the magazine being dragged.

Why should this be added?:
- Better usage of ammo
- Less costly on everybody
- Less entities overall in the server with more recycling of ammo
- Convenient for everybody.
- Realistic and adds a layer of immersion

What negatives could this have?:
- Hard to code maybe

 

[Exnem]

Couldn't you just make it so that if you have half-used mags but no ammo in your inventory, you just repack your mags the same way you fill water from one container to the other? You just click on it the same way you fill mags from boxes.
This would completely remove the need for extracting ammo from magazines unless you're trying to sell mags without ammo for some reason. And if you're trying to sell ammo, you're better off crafting the boxes than pulling ammo from mags needlessly.

clicking on a loaded but not full magazine will unload it and make a ammo box out of the ammo extracted just like a normal ammo box.

Also, wouldn't this just conflict with you trying to load magazines from ammo boxes? You'd go to click on it to fill it and instead just inadvertently pull the ammo out. This seems flawed.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Couldn't you just make it so that if you have half-used mags but no ammo in your inventory, you just repack your mags the same way you fill water from one container to the other? You just click on it the same way you fill mags from boxes.

The problem is is that would not allow the user to decide which source fills the magazine with ammo if the user did have ammo boxes. So I suggest that dragging and dropping a half filled magazine onto another is what triggers the attempt to use one to load the other and would allow for the most capability.

This would completely remove the need for extracting ammo from magazines unless you're trying to sell mags without ammo for some reason.

My suggestion is asking for the freedom to be able to manage your bullets which is something which some parts off may appear to some as pointless however the freedom to do these actions gives the player more control over the ammo they have so yes they can sell ammo if they want like this or in the midst of a gunfight maximize all ammo on their person immediately.

Also, wouldn't this just conflict with you trying to load magazines from ammo boxes? You'd go to click on it to fill it and instead just inadvertently pull the ammo out. This seems flawed.

I have no idea as I’m not a developer so I can’t speak on that. I attempted to prevent any conflicts by explaining that recycling will be one mag dragged onto another while emptying a mag from its ammo would be just clicking on it.

 

[Exnem]

The problem is is that would not allow the user to decide which source fills the magazine with ammo if the user did have ammo boxes. So I suggest that dragging and dropping a half filled magazine onto another is what triggers the attempt to use one to load the other and would allow for the most capability.

The simplest solution is to just have magazines fill from ammo boxes first, same type magazines secondary, and same ammo magazines as a tertiary choice. Dragging mags onto others to fill them is just going to be tedious and excessive.
You'd go to drag a mag over another, its filled by the dragged mag, yet it could have been done with a single click. This isn't tarkov, so ammo management isn't particularly important here. Most people on this server is only concerned with having enough ammo in their current mag to do what they need to do, so simply clicking the mag to transfer ammo from 2-3 mags into 1 would be much simpler.

It's a good idea in concept but with the suggested implementation it'd contain too many steps. It also adds an additional layer to the learning curve that new players experience when they start playing. Using the same system as water tanks to fill mags (ammo boxes prioritized) will give new players a naturally occurring, and frankly intuitive, re-use of already learned material. They know they can refill water tanks from eachother, so they go to try it on mags, and what do you know? it works.

Dragging magazines over one-another is not something I would think to do in any game, and I doubt a new player will either. Either they left click the mag, right click it, or completely ignore it.

Also I'm not sure how that wouldn't let you decide which source the ammo would come from. I know for a fact that I'd always want to use my ammo boxes first, and repack my magazines as a last resort when I'm nearly dry. So a natural implementation would be a priority. Ammo boxes as primary, same mags as secondary, same ammo type mags as tertiary. E.g, you're completely out of ammo in your 101 mags except for one, but you have ak-47 mags with rifle ammo, but only an AK-101 in your hands.
Clicking the mags at this point would just pull the ammo from other mags in your inventory.

Not a hard concept to grasp when you think about it.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

So then how would a user be given the freedom to unload a magazine or firearm?

 

[Exnem]

So then how would a user be given the freedom to unload a magazine or firearm?

That's the fun part. You don't. The point of ammo is to use it. Scavenging from magazines is inefficient and a big waste of time, because at the end of the day you're going to be reloading the same mags again with fresh ammo anyway. You can already unload a gun by taking the mag out though.

I don't quite understand your focus on taking ammo out of mags and putting them in boxes. I have never, over so many years, felt the need to do that on PERP, not once.
Again, it's more efficient to either buy ammo boxes, or make the ammo yourself. Picking ammo out of mags to later use in other mags seems like a waste of time in that regard.

If you truly cannot afford even ammo, then grab two mags with the same ammo type and click on one. It'll use the tertiary repacking I suggested in my second reply as long as you have no ammo boxes in your inventory, and all your target mags are as packed as they can be, skipping secondary repacking.

No ammo box and no valid same-mag target to pull ammo from means it'll just take same ammo type from other magazines in your inventory indiscriminately when you click on the mag to load it. Again, same as water tanks, just cross-compatible with same ammo type mags.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

That's the fun part. You don't. The point of ammo is to use it. Scavenging from magazines is inefficient and a big waste of time, because at the end of the day you're going to be reloading the same mags again with fresh ammo anyway. You can already unload a gun by taking the mag out though.

I don't quite understand your focus on taking ammo out of mags and putting them in boxes. I have never, over so many years, felt the need to do that on PERP, not once.
Again, it's more efficient to either buy ammo boxes, or make the ammo yourself. Picking ammo out of mags to later use in other mags seems like a waste of time in that regard.

If you truly cannot afford even ammo, then grab two mags with the same ammo type and click on one. It'll use the tertiary repacking I suggested in my second reply as long as you have no ammo boxes in your inventory, and all your target mags are as packed as they can be, skipping secondary repacking.

No ammo box and no valid same-mag target to pull ammo from means it'll just take same ammo type from other magazines in your inventory indiscriminately when you click on the mag to load it. Again, same as water tanks, just cross-compatible with same ammo type mags.

I would have to disagree. Unloading ammo isn’t about whether you personally ever had an experience where you wanted to or whether you personally believe it has a point. The objective fact irrelevant to opinion is that it’s a function which is absent to ammo management. My suggestion aims to bring that ability to manage ammo more and give the user all sorts of freedom, even if the game isn’t Tarkov, it’s a role play simulator that already has complex ammo system with rounds being specific to the magazine so it’s highly likely many would benefit from not just recycling but unloading as well.

 

[Exnem]

I would have to disagree. Unloading ammo isn’t about whether you personally ever had an experience where you wanted to or whether you personally believe it has a point. The objective fact irrelevant to opinion is that it’s a function which is absent to ammo management. My suggestion aims to bring that ability to manage ammo more and give the user all sorts of freedom, even if the game isn’t Tarkov, it’s a role play simulator that already has complex ammo system with rounds being specific to the magazine so it’s highly likely many would benefit from not just recycling but unloading as well.

Not so much a personal belief, and more of a predicted result.
Your proposed system for ammo management I can only see being used for repacking magazines, which in my reply I've already proposed a simplified version for.
Scavenging ammo from magazines, again, will be more tedious and time consuming than making the ammo boxes and having the surplus ammunition as a result.
Ammo is abundant, so the need for a scavenger level system isn't there.
New players will have yet another obstacle to learn on their path to mastering the gamemode, one that provides very little benefit when actually employed, unlike my simplified version.
Adding layers of complexity doesn't always improve the server, and frankly I feel that your proposed addition would only serve to complicate the inventory.
To top it off, my simplified version completely removes the middleman of taking the ammo out of a mag, putting it into a box, then putting it into another mag.

How do you choose when to pull ammo out of mags instead of adding ammo from boxes in your inventory? This hasn't been addressed at all, and simply brushed aside as you "don't know." in your first reply.
This seems like more hassle than it'd be worth in the end. I know I have zero demand for a system like this at this scale. I can get behind repacking mags from existing mags, but pulling ammo out of them is just excessive.

Ideas & Suggestions are all about community opinions, beliefs, demand and necessity, so brushing my reply aside as such isn't particularly constructive here.
My opinion and belief is that this suggestion is not necessary, and has only a small demand at this scale, supported by my own experiences. I firmly believe most people would be happy to have mag repacking without having to learn a new system that included ammo extraction, whose implementation was up for interpretation by the devs as described in OP and first reply.

 

[Rob Robster]

Scavenging ammo from magazines, again, will be more tedious and time consuming than making the ammo boxes and having the surplus ammunition as a result.
Ammo is abundant, so the need for a scavenger level system isn't there.

The Ammo is Abundant untill you run out of surplus boxes mid fight and have 10 magazines each with only 5-10 bullets left in each and having to constantly reload when you could then instead just repack the ammo into other magazines.

New players will have yet another obstacle to learn on their path to mastering the gamemode, one that provides very little benefit when actually employed, unlike my simplified version.

I mean, it wouldn't even be close to an obstacle to learn, when I first joined I assumed that you could repack the magazines with a magazine of the same type.

This seems like more hassle than it'd be worth in the end. I know I have zero demand for a system like this at this scale. I can get behind repacking mags from existing mags, but pulling ammo out of them is just excessive.

I agree putting the ammo from the magazines into the ammo box from is kinda useless, but magazine into magazine is very useful.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Not so much a personal belief, and more of a predicted result.
Your proposed system for ammo management I can only see being used for repacking magazines, which in my reply I've already proposed a simplified version for.
Scavenging ammo from magazines, again, will be more tedious and time consuming than making the ammo boxes and having the surplus ammunition as a result.
Ammo is abundant, so the need for a scavenger level system isn't there.
New players will have yet another obstacle to learn on their path to mastering the gamemode, one that provides very little benefit when actually employed, unlike my simplified version.
Adding layers of complexity doesn't always improve the server, and frankly I feel that your proposed addition would only serve to complicate the inventory.
To top it off, my simplified version completely removes the middleman of taking the ammo out of a mag, putting it into a box, then putting it into another mag.

How do you choose when to pull ammo out of mags instead of adding ammo from boxes in your inventory? This hasn't been addressed at all, and simply brushed aside as you "don't know." in your first reply.
This seems like more hassle than it'd be worth in the end. I know I have zero demand for a system like this at this scale. I can get behind repacking mags from existing mags, but pulling ammo out of them is just excessive.

Ideas & Suggestions are all about community opinions, beliefs, demand and necessity, so brushing my reply aside as such isn't particularly constructive here.
My opinion and belief is that this suggestion is not necessary, and has only a small demand at this scale, supported by my own experiences. I firmly believe most people would be happy to have mag repacking without having to learn a new system that included ammo extraction, whose implementation was up for interpretation by the devs as described in OP and first reply.

An option to unload ammo can work as allowing the user to click on the ammo box according to the ammo type. Then the primary feature is that it will take from other ammo boxes into one but if no other ammo boxes are present the secondary action is it will take from the least filled magazine in ones inventory matching the ammo type.

That way one can choose to allocate spare ammo which isn’t being used in magazines he’s never gonna use to fill half full ammo boxes which he may intend to use himself or sell.

Also I apologize if my statement came off as dismissive of your input and I want to clarify my meaning by that was only to state that I felt just because you may have not thought of my idea or you assume that it wouldn’t be used I would argue that doesnt 100% mean it will never be used.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Side note: I think we all agree that at the very least recycling half filled mags to fill others is a needed feature that everyone here agrees we want.

 

[Locksmith]

Side note: I think we all agree that at the very least recycling half filled mags to fill others is a needed feature that everyone here agrees we want.

Is it just me or i feel like this is not really needed,Most of us carry around ammo boxes to fill mags if needed when in shootouts anyway.

 

[Rob Robster]

Is it just me or i feel like this is not really needed,Most of us carry around ammo boxes to fill mags if needed when in shootouts anyway.

And then what happens when you shoot all that spare ammo and your mags are all 5-10 bullets each, your stuck in a constant loop of changing mags

 

[Locksmith]

And then what happens when you shoot all that spare ammo and your mags are all 5-10 bullets each, your stuck in a constant loop of changing mags

Majority of us will die before we get to that point.But even so if you carry Max ammo boxes for that gun,with already filled mags you will probably be just fine since most Have at least 2 Mags worth of ammo in Each Box

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Majority of us will die before we get to that point.But even so if you carry Max ammo boxes for that gun,with already filled mags you will probably be just fine since most Have at least 2 Mags worth of ammo in Each Box

The ability to recycle your ammo plus also make use of the ammo stuck in magazines you may never use again is a good needed feature. It removes waste, decreases entity count and so on alongside other positives as stated above.