AR on Jeffers

[Johnsontucker]

Your Steam/In-game Name: Tim Jimzon
His/Her Steam/In-game Name: Not sure, Jeffers, well known player (https://perpheads.com/members/jeffer-cake.4714/)
His/Her SteamID: Idk
Why Should This Player Be Punished: Scammed me infront of 3 or more police officers, had no realistic chance of escape, clearly broke 3.4 as he was arrested within 30 seconds of scamming me.
After scamming me he refused to return the money claiming that the money was in his ATM and therefore it cannot be removed under the "No forced withdrawrals" rule, but because I was scammed the money can be forcefully removed by the police as roleplay (feel free to ask Bolli about this topic)
Evidence (Demo Required): https://mega.nz/#F!LEMBRCKY!RnyZoBQaiaS9iI15Pi8H5w
Tick: 56000-end of demo, second demo 0-end of demo

 

[matt]

@Jeffer Cake / I have seen Jeffrey's RP when owning a casino, It tend's to be very good, but is often very reluctant to pay up large sums of money. Plus the demo clearly shows you being scammed.

This is most definitely 3.4, if there was no officers there, you seemed defenseless so he could have probably escaped, but the fact officers were there makes it pretty blunt, he had no way of escaping.

So for the reason's mentioned prior.
+Support

 

[Jeffer Cake]

I did have a getaway planned which would of worked, but Aaron and me both closed the door at the same time, which lead to it staying open and letting all the cops through. I was going to run through the back of my shop and get in my car and drive away. Another flaw in the actual getaway ~ I forgot to pay my ticket, and couldn't start the engine; but lets be honest a lot of plans fail because of dumb things which sometimes you just forget to do.

Other than that the whole money scenario, I put all the money he bet and lost straight away in the bank. After this he finally won a 400k bet I believe, in which I then tried to scam but got caught, and then gave him 200k back (all I had on me). From this if you think about it the money could be anywhere, multiple bank accounts all over the world. Of course you can argue that making money disappear via bank systems takes a long time, however I can then argue that I can put 400k in an ATM so why can't I make money disappear once it is stored.

 

[Eviction Notice]

Other than that the whole money scenario, I put all the money he bet and lost straight away in the bank. After this he finally won a 400k bet I believe, in which I then tried to scam but got caught, and then gave him 200k back (all I had on me). From this if you think about it the money could be anywhere, multiple bank accounts all over the world. Of course you can argue that making money disappear via bank systems takes a long time, however I can then argue that I can put 400k in an ATM so why can't I make money disappear once it is stored.

I find it hard to believe that you can store 400K of notes in a few seconds by inserting them one at a time. The fact is though that you scammed someone infront of 3 officers, officers that have witnessed the crime and can then follow you.

I was going to run through the back of my shop and get in my car and drive away.

I'm pretty sure the officers would be on top of you by then, as it'd take a bit of time to run down the alley, get in your car, turn on the engine and drive off.

Anyways, this is a +support on my part.

 

[Jeffer Cake]

Right; as this AR is on me breaking 3.4 I just want to explain my actions on how I thought they were a worth while risk.

3.4 Putting your Life at Risk - Players must at all times act realistically, meaning that any actions taken that may put a player’s In-Character life, freedom from imprisonment and/or general wellbeing at risk must be done so in a realistic fashion, for realistically good/beneficial reasons and in such a way that can be justified as reasonable.


Risks are deemed to be unreasonable when it can’t be appropriately and effectively justified; for example, if a player was to rob the bank and fail, leading to their death, that player would be expected to demonstrate to an administrator that they had a realistic and reasonable plan and/or mind-set to succeed.


This rule is specifically relevant to the violation of any In-Character law, meaning that murders, thefts, etc, are all expected to be conducted realistically; for example, if a player kills another player, which results in the former’s death and/or imprisonment, it will mean that the player has failed and unless they can effectively and appropriately demonstrate/prove that they had a realistic and reasonable plan to succeed, an appropriate punishment will be enacted.


A common example would be for a player to murder a Police Officer in order to avoid receiving a traffic ticket; this would likely result in the enactment of an administrative punishment because this specific example is deemed to be inappropriate - this is because the risk (death/life-imprisonment) involved with the murder of a Police Officer is grossly disproportionate to the benefit of avoiding a traffic ticket, typically.


Another common example would be for a player to violate traffic laws without a good/reasonable reason.

So I took the risk to attempt to make 1.4m I believe and had a plan which I literally thought on the top of my head and tried to see it out. Unfortunately it failed, which lead to me getting 4 YEARS in jail. Now you ask me this, is it worth IRL to spend 4 years in jail for a reward of 1.4m when you get out? Fuck yeah. So I really don't believe I broke 3.4 as the pros outweighed the cons of what I did. You could honestly tell me that you would rather lose 800k and not spend 4 years in jail when you could make 1.4m instead and only spend 4 years in jail, then quite frankly you are bullshitting.

In addition to this there were numerous Mods on the scene when this happened, and none of them told me I was breaking 3.4 (Lord Tyla was even the cop on scene) so I really think if he thought I broke 3.4 then he would of dealt with it right there on the spot.

Overall I think my actions were justified as I took the risk to make a substantially large amount of money for the risk of getting a 4 years jail time. The whole money scenario is nothing to do with this AR so nothing should be said about the ATM transfers as it broke no rules as Fredy and other Mods like I said were on the scene after I got caught and they all were in a discussion whether I had to give the money back. If any of the Mods told me I had to give the money back I would of done it instantly, but none said I did.

 

[Johnsontucker]

So I took the risk to attempt to make 1.4m I believe and had a plan which I literally thought on the top of my head and tried to see it out. Unfortunately it failed, which lead to me getting 4 YEARS in jail. Now you ask me this, is it worth IRL to spend 4 years in jail for a reward of 1.4m when you get out? Fuck yeah. So I really don't believe I broke 3.4 as the pros outweighed the cons of what I did. You could honestly tell me that you would rather lose 800k and not spend 4 years in jail when you could make 1.4m instead and only spend 4 years in jail, then quite frankly you are bullshitting.

In addition to this there were numerous Mods on the scene when this happened, and none of them told me I was breaking 3.4 (Lord Tyla was even the cop on scene) so I really think if he thought I broke 3.4 then he would of dealt with it right there on the spot.

Overall I think my actions were justified as I took the risk to make a substantially large amount of money for the risk of getting a 4 years jail time. The whole money scenario is nothing to do with this AR so nothing should be said about the ATM transfers as it broke no rules as Fredy and other Mods like I said were on the scene after I got caught and they all were in a discussion whether I had to give the money back. If any of the Mods told me I had to give the money back I would of done it instantly, but none said I did.

1. Losing money that isn't yours to begin with, in place for 4 years in jail is not worth it, your attempt to escape not only caused you to go to jail but it also meant that in real life you would be made to repay the money, I fully understand that you wanted to escape, but due to your failure you should be made to return the money to me.

2. The moderators on the scene at the time did not fully understand the rules and failed to enforce them properly, I later spoke to Bolli on teamspeak and he agreed that the mods should have made you return the money, that's why I made my RR that has lead onto this AR.

3. Although you may believe your actions were justified realistically with 3+ cops at the scene you should have known you had no realistic chance of escape, and even if you did escape the chances of you getting away with it are next to none, cops clearly saw your face, they know your name because you owned a shop, you had no chance of escape. Overall your scam shop is terrible and in real life you would be arrested for fraud very quickly as you made it so obvious.

 

[Deleted member 4141]

I haven't watched the video because I haven't got access to a computer - but from what I gathered (Said from both sides) Is that Jeffer was scamming John in front of officers, the officers went into a chase but Jeffer ran inside of his shop along with aaron however the escape was postponed as both of them tried closing the door, then when running to his car; he forgot he had a ticket which resulted in him getting caught by the police. Correct me if i'm wrong. However whilst I believe that 3.4 was only slightly broken, I think it was more or less 3.19/3.20 which was broken.

- 3.4 - I believe this was only broken under the circumstance that his freedom from imprisonment was threatened which. I believe it was as instead of dealing with the situation right there and then, he simply tried to make an escape which seemed to have failed him in the long run. Also another situation which is acceptable is if the PROs of running away outweigh the CONs which i believe wasn't the case either. As the only real PRO was that Jeffers would've kept the money however the CONs outweighed them as there was a possibility of the jail sentence getting higher due to failure to cooperate and failure to pay your ticket.

- 3.19 / 3.20 - Reason for the rule breakage here is that there were multiple officers in the area along with the fact that Jeffer wasn't already in a car which limited his escape especially if the officer's had surrounded the perimeter where escape wouldn't available in any form. 3.19 also states that escape should only be an option if the arrest was to drastically affect your character's life which would prevent them to live their life normally, which i don't think was the case.

--

Overall I think simply the money should be given back and a mere warning should be given though this also depends on Jeffer's current record, eg. If he has for example over 8 warnings then that can be taken into account and given as a ban reason - for excessive amount of warnings. If he hasn't though then I really do think this is only warning worthy.

(Sorry for shit post, on my phone lol)

 

[Walker]

Lets be honest because I was there. You lose around 400k in bets previously. Once you won twice in a row and said "Use the money you owe me" Jeffers decided to run off. You got the money he had on him but he had already but the money from previous loses into the ATM which was not breaking rules.

You were given the money you were 'Scammed for' but he just refused to give you the money he owed you.

 

[Minilarro]

As the demos are now broken, I cannot review them and see if he did break 3.4 or alike. Regarding the refunding of the money, you would only be refunded the amount you deposited, not the amount you would have won if not for the scam taking place. @Bolli 's opinion is the same as this.