Ban Dispute (Ayjay)

[Bojing]

Punishment Type: Ban
Appeal Type: Dispute
Which staff member issued the punishment?: Ayjay
How long were you banned/blacklisted for?: 4 Days

Your Steam Name: Bojing
Your Roleplay Name: Bojing Mohammad
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:95528259

Why were you banned/blacklisted?: 2.5, 3.12, 2.9 - Player made an advert telling the mayor to lower the taxes, within a minute of doing this he attempted to gun down the mayor and killed a SS agent. Zero thought or roleplay went into this entire situation, it's clear this user just wanted to get himself involved in a gunfight.

Why should this appeal be considered?: Rule 2.9 is well to be honest with you , not enforced at all (well except Ayjay today), people use adverts to warn the mayor to lower the taxes, it has been like this for years. I don't remember the last time someone got banned for warning the mayor over advert's, to then kill the mayor if he ignores or disagrees. So I was confused today when I received a 4 day ban (take into consideration my record over the last few months hasn't been too bad) for this rule especially, as 'RDM' wouldn't have been happened if I didn't think the mayor had been warned.


The taxes were 50%, I made an advert 'MAYOR LOWER THE TAXES'. After about 2 mins I saw the mayor at the intersection, turning to suburbs. Now the mayors actions right there to completely steer off towards the subs when the advert was made told me that he has just ignored it. I followed him to subs, the SS parked up and they was heading into Subs 2 ( which again told me that the mayor didn't care about the warning he just received minutes before in the adverts). So I hopped out my car and started shooting at him, I think I hit him once but the mayor didn't die, the SS (Ayjay) turned to me and tried to attack me, I killed Ayjay and escaped as I knew backup had probably been called and me being there was just unsafe.


I haven't seen any members of the staff team actually enforce this 2.9 rule, I was unaware about having to go up in person to the mayor and warn, as I'm sure a lot of people are unaware. Adverting to warn the mayor about the taxes seems to be permitted in the eyes of the staff team, as people make the adverts to then kill the mayor, which hasn't resulted in a ban (forgive me if I'm wrong) really ever before? Well of course until now.


Now I'm not saying I was correct, maybe I should of warned the mayor actually in person before attempting to kill him, but please understand my perspective, If no one is getting punished for breaking this rule, and I see staff members doing the same as I did, why shouldn't I be allowed to do it? Again if no user is getting punished (until now), why shouldn't I be allowed to do it?


I'm aware I did break this rule (which resulted in 2.5, but clearly wouldn't of happened if I didn't feel like the mayor received the appropriate warning), but I hope you now understand why I did what I did today.


I had no intention of breaking the rules because I felt like that sort of behaviour (warning mayor through advert) was permitted because of the lack of the rule actually being enforced, and well the fact that it would be broken on a daily basis without no repercussion whatsoever.


I also feel like a 4 day warning is not really appropriate for a small situation like this, I was told that the ban was really due to the RDM, but as I've said I wouldn't have RDMed if this 2.9 was actually enforced. I have never been banned or warned (to my knowledge) for this, so I think it's a tiny bit excessive. I clearly didn't try break this rule to start a shootout or RDM, I had no malicious intentions. This rule was broken because I felt like I was actually allowed to do what I did.


In my eye's this ban was excessive and a tiny bit unfair, I would of happily took a warning, and I would of happily apologised for my wrong doings.

Additional Information: I went to talk to Ayjay about my ban in teamspeak, It's sad because when I tried explaining my side of the story, Ayjay just moved me out. Why move me in the channel if you aren't gonna hear me out man? Thank you to the guy who came into my channel and listened to my side. Also Ayjay puts 'it's clear this user just wanted to get himself involved in a gunfight', this is silly and untrue, I just wanted low taxes so people in my org could craft

Ayjay, I hope you can see I had no intentions of breaking this rule, I try to help people out in this community, (you know show new players what to do, set them up with a org) and for me to be blocked from doing that over a small situation like this is just a bit annoying.

 

[Bojing]

To be honest with you Alex_, I've had a very hard time actually listening to what you have been saying in ooc because of this:




So forgive me for not following your advice. As I said in the dispute I felt like what I did was actually allowed because of how many time's it actually happens on a daily basis without any repercussion.

 

[Bojing]

@Alex_:D thank you for explaining the rules, but I think you are missing the whole point. People do this stuff on a daily basis, even staff members.

If a rule isn't being properly enforced and actually broken by some staff members, what does that say to the members of this community? it's saying it's okay to do such thing's like adverting to warn the mayor, to then kill the mayor.

I also want to make it clear it didn't take place within a space of a minute.

 

[Alex_:D]

@Bojing You should be making staff complaints against those members, anyone seen to not be enforcing the rules or directly breaking them needs to be reported.

 

[KaiH]

You are aware we have reasons to have lower taxes not everyone is out for blood mate. When taxes are 50% it's really bad for the game for example when having to buy newspaper and lye it makes them very expensive. I don't understand what your grudge is with the /advert. Bojing was lowering taxes to help out org members who are new because most of our org is and they don't really have much money so allowing them to spend the least possible is pretty important. Like I said many mayors have listened to the /advert function and that's what makes it normal to everyone normally the mayor will respond in an advert to people. I know it's against the rules but it's one of them rules that 80% of the server don't listen too. Don't understand why you feel the need to enforce the rule yourself. I don't see any sort of staff badge other than honorary on your name.

 

[Bojing]

@Alex_:D maybe, seeing this rule broken on a daily basis without any repercussion for lets face it years has made me and many other members of this community feel like that acts committed today felt justified.

 

[Ayjay]

It makes very little sense to me that you're trying to justify this ban despite admitting in this very post to breaking the rules, something you were very reluctant to do whilst we were talking in-game and on Teamspeak. Using the excuse of "some staff allow me to do this" isn't a reason to break the rules, it's written in black and white that you shouldn't do something, yet you seem to have a problem when you're actually called out on this behaviour. The point of rules is to follow them, especially when they're written so explicitly, you should count yourself lucky that certain staff members have given you a free pass, not criticize those who actually do enforce them.

Let us also keep in mind that the majority of the reason behind your ban isn't simply because of the advert, in fact that's a relatively small consideration. You made an advert whilst the mayor was at the bank and by the time we got to the Suburbs, you had already shot at us and killed a Secret Service agent. Killing the mayor within a minute or two of telling him to lower the taxes is ridiculous in every sense, no threatening, no attempt to converse, no chances given for him to follow through.

You have to distinguish the vital difference between shooting someone for funsies and engaging in some form of roleplay (which the mayoral assassination rule says you should), someone with your extensive playtime should utilize your knowledge of the rules to avoid these very situations. I have no bad blood about the situation and I might have even lowered the ban length if you showed at least some remorse for your actions via an apology, but I guess that isn't the way you want to do things.

 

[Bojing]

Ayjay when I tried to explain my point of view you just moved me out of the teamspeak channel? How could I explain anything to you when you left me in another channel for me to speak to someone else?

The mayor clearly ignored my request, turning towards suburbs to then settle down in the subs house.

Again I'm not sure you actually understand my point of view? When I try to explain my point of view you move me out????

I suggest reading through this dispute properly, and if you feel ready to actually hear my point of view please come to TeamSpeak, we can talk privately.

 

[Ayjay]

I explained to you thoroughly in-game and on Teamspeak the reasoning behind your ban, I moved you out because you refused to compute the fact that what you did was clearly and without doubt against the rules. I understand your perspective on the enforcement of specific rules, but killing the mayor two minutes after typing "lower the taxes mayor" in /advert is simply not allowed and I'm still incredibly confused how you see any form of roleplay in the actions you took to attempt to kill the mayor.

I read the entirety of your dispute and stand by my actions to ban you, if you disagree with that then you should read over the rules as I've suggested before. Members of the administration team will deal with this now.

 

[Bojing]

@Ayjay I was very open to your reasoning, at no point did I refuse to compute anything.

I understand the rule-breakage I have nothing against that, I just want you to see where I'm coming from, because you clearly don't?

I'm disputing the fact that my wrong doings today was caused by the environment in which made me feel like the actions were justified and that the ban was a bit excessive because of this

Next time when I am explaining my point of view, have the respect and decency to actually listen to me like I did to you.

 

[Dom_]

Due to the facts of this dispute, on paper rules were broken. The issue of these rules not being enforced by other staff is the fault of the staff team, however this does not mean that you should not have been punished by @Ayjay in this situation.
I have already posted an announcement in slack clarifying the rules on 2.9 and therefore this rule will be enforced the same by all staff from now on.