Ban Dispute (ellie)

[zorozeenee]

Punishment Type: Ban
Appeal Type: Dispute[Evidence]
Which staff member issued the punishment?: ellie
How long were you banned/blacklisted for?: 1 Week

Your Steam Name: zorozeenee
Your Roleplay Name: Carl Caffard
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:72775062

Why were you banned/blacklisted?: 2.5 & 3.4

Why should this appeal be considered?: To start I want to say I have witnessed many raids on the PD, I was banned after I raided the PD in an attempt to free prisoners. During the raid I got popups that what we were doing was against the rules. I immediately ordered my org members to vacate the pd. After this the admin dragging me to a sit, I was respectful and assured the admin it would not happen again and I would inform my org members that we would not raid the PD in the future.

The problem I have is that me and my org directly benefit from prison break attempts on the PD. We benefit through recruitment where we recruit people we have rescued into our org. These members are often very motivated with the orgs ideals and goals in mind, they also add to org our points and perks. Rule 3.4 says "Any actions taken by a player that may put their In-Character life, freedom from imprisonment or general well being at risk must be done so in a realistic fashion and for beneficial reasons." As you can understand we benefit from raiding the PD to free prisoners.

Our reasons to free people benefit our group as we get recruits and org perks and points and are also realistic.

Examples of Prison breaks in history verifying that it is realistic:
-On January 1, 2023, gunmen stormed a prison in Ciudad Juárez, Mexico, killing 10 prison guards and four inmates. Fourteen prisoners escaped after the raid.[67]
-On December 1, 2021, a group of gangsters broke into a prison in Tula, Mexico, freeing nine inmates (including a drug lord) and injuring two law enforcement officers.[61]
Hundreds if other examples here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prison_escapes

In the admin sit Ellie told me 3.4 does not allow me to raid the the PD to free prisoners. Upon reviewing 3.4 over and over again there was no example listed which said we could not. In addition I remember Ellie happened to be the first cop we took out on our way down to the prison area meaning that she self-admined this. I repeatedly asked Ellie where exactly it said we could not Raid the PD to free prisoners in 3.4 but I was stonewalled again and again. She stated "Its in 3.4" again and again without explaining why we were not allowed to do it despite me and my org receiving direct benefits. Nowhere in rule 3.4 does it state anything about PD raids.

I understand that rule 3.4 may have been enforced in a certain way for a long period of time. Ellie stated she had been an admin for 9 years. I understand that certain rules have discretion and the admins have this power to enforce the rules. This is why upon understanding what we did wrong was wrong I stated we wouldn't do it again. If 3.4 needs another example stating what does and does not constitute a valid PD raid then I think it should. However being that I have only played the server for a month I don't think I would have a knowledge of what constitutes a valid PD raid if it is not in the rules.

In addition after I was banned in the ban list, it was listed that I broke 2.5. I have no idea what I did to break rule 2.5 and I believe this was added because I spoke to the admin about what is and isn't stated in the rules. I was told in the ban list that I was "troublesome" in the admin sit despite me being polite and cooperative through the entire duration.

In conclusion, me and my org directly benefitted from raiding the PD to free prisoners. I was not negative during the sit and only tried to understand what part of the rules I violated. I assured Ellie that we would never raid the PD again to free prisoners again. I was cooperative and polite to the staff. I just want to say I am not a troublemaker, I am not here to cause problems. If the rules need to be changed to have a better server than that is ok and I will cooperate fully. I just don't see how this ban if valid. Please inform me if I am wrong on this. I am humble, I understand if I messed up and I really just want to play the server and abide by the rules. However I cannot see why I was banned for this,.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

 

[3izu]

The only scenario in which players are allowed to initiate a PD raid is when they or their friends are involved in a crime that carries a sentence of 7 years or more, as it provides a justification for killing officers, as stated in rule 3.4.

Spoiler: Rule 3.4

3.4 Putting your Life at Risk​

Any actions taken by a player that may put their In-Character life, freedom from imprisonment or general well being at risk must be done so in a realistic fashion and for beneficial reasons.



This rule is specifically relevant to the violation of any In-Character law, meaning that murders, thefts, etc, are all expected to be conducted realistically;



A few common examples of unreasonable risks includes, but is not limited to:

• Running on the highway without a justifiable reason
• Loitering around the vicinity of a shootout you are not a part of or being within the line of fire from both intentional and accidental fire. Users must flee the scene of a shootout and wait for police to clear the scene and reopen the area to the public. This applies regardless of you being restrained or not.
• Murdering a police officer(s) to avoid yourself or others receiving a minor punishment, such as a small ticket or a minor jail sentence
• Loitering around the scene of a crime you committed with the intention of engaging in more combat
• To not comply with reasonable orders given under the direct threat of a lethal weapon pointed at you, such as a mugging.
• Committing a violent or serious crime, such as murder, theft, arson, etc. whilst knowing that police are in direct eyeshot of the scene you wish to commit the crime at.
• After committing a crime, relevant precautions should be taken to avoid arrest or police attention, such as avoiding public places.

Some valid reasons to kill police officers include:

• Risk of a long prison sentence
• Preventing the imminent detection of drug production.
• Committing a violent crime police would reasonably use lethal force to apprehend you for.

Attempting to recruit players through raiding the PD is neither a viable nor a sensible idea; it violates the rules, as you are putting yourself at unnecessary risk. You are risking your life by entering a situation without knowledge of the potential consequences, the person's charges, or their sentence. The chances of dying for a pointless cause are high, and attempting to justify such actions as realistic is silly. You are only allowed to assist players whom you are friends with in escaping.


If you're interested in recruiting players for your organization, consider advertising or creating forum posts. Engaging in shootouts over such a ridiculous idea negatively impacts the officers' roleplay experience

Reviewed with @SamSN @Sindarin