Server Suggestion New rule

[Spooda]

Suggestion Title: New rule
Suggestion Description: I encountered a situation in CH today where I was taking the mayor hostage in order to attempt to assist a PD raid by luring cops away and holding them in CH, TFU arrived on scene and used the rules to their advantage by taking a OOC request into character as they claimed they were unable to hear me which implies a issue with the voice chat and this was recognized as a opportunity to kill me by the mayor who crouched causing TFU to have a clear shot on me. This just ruined my mood tbh and made me log of for a while to play something else as I thought it was just really weird to ruin the fun using that tactic and I don't want it to happen to anyone else and after looking through rules and policy's and talking to a TFU member turns out it was allowed as well and they didn't specifically break any rules. So I want to introduce a power gaming rule or something along those lines . I want to introduce this as I think it would just be common sense not to shoot a hostage taker after using a OOC incident to your advantage. I'm not saying anyone did anything wrong here but its just a bit annoying for me personally to have the situation ruined for our side by a scummy static that relies on inhibiting my own ability to act by a officer hinting towards a out of character issue and this being recognized by said hostage taker resulting in me dying.


Yeah so I would appreciate it if a potential new rule could be considered as it just wasn't very fun to have my RP ruined bc of this.

Why should this be added?:
- Encourages RP to last longer as well as a more serious outlook
- Stops any forms of negativity boiling between community members
- If this happened to me and I was only like 8 hours into the server I would just leave and not come back

What negatives could this have?:
- I cant think of any

 

[Bnjemann]

Hostage taking shouldn’t have an easy way out, you cornered yourself to follow a plan that didn’t work.

 

[Spooda]

Hostage taking shouldn’t have an easy way out, you cornered yourself to follow a plan that didn’t work.

I'm not annoyed that I lost I'm annoyed that I lost to a tactic that encourages me to remove my hands from my mouse OOC and then acting on that matter once my hands were moved. I don't think its fun or fair.

 

[Dom_]

I didn't ask you to type I asked you to spell their names, this wasn't an attempt to get you to type it was me stalling waiting for Ellie to crouch.

 

[Spooda]

I didn't ask you to type I asked you to spell their names, this wasn't an attempt to get you to type it was me stalling waiting for Ellie to crouch.

Its purposefully indicated for me to start typing for you to capitalise as shown in the video and even understood by Ellie who they is no way in character you could of communicated with that would have caused her to crouch and if you did you did knowingly based on the fact I would type. Even if you used gov radio I'm stood right behind her and I would of hear it IC its just abusing things which don't exist inside of the game that would in real life that's what I would like the new rule I'm suggesting to consist of.

 

[kerzify]

I've encountered loads of different Hostage Situations where it feels like there is no Hostage RP but then again I can see where Bnej is coming from with Hostage Taking not being an easy way out, I do wish that Hostage Situations and Negotiations were taken more into consideration because in every situation that I've been in even some when the hostage taker is directing a gun at the hostage they still seem to get taken out from somewhere else.

I'm not too sure if there should be a specific rule for this as that may be far fetched and extremely situational.

 

[karatechameleon]

I dont think it needs to be a rule but it needs to be looked into.

 

[Efan]

I would argue that this could be defined under 3.24 anyhow.

 

[Dom_]

Its purposefully indicated for me to start typing for you to capitalise as shown in the video and even understood by Ellie who they is no way in character you could of communicated with that would have caused her to crouch and if you did you did knowingly based on the fact I would type. Even if you used gov radio I'm stood right behind her and I would of hear it IC its just abusing things which don't exist inside of the game that would in real life that's what I would like the new rule I'm suggesting to consist of.

I didnt communicate this with her at all, I was hoping she'd know what to do considering you were solo and therefore killing you is the best option if the opportunity is given, which it was. As I've stated above, it wasnt my intention to get you typing, I was just waiting for Ellie to move or crouch so I could get a clear shot on you and so I was stalling. I can see why you thought I meant type, but the fact that you did is rather unfortunate and was not intended.

Furthermore as u can see from the video I could see you typing and didn't shoot you til after you'd finished and when Ellie had crouched.

 

[Spooda]

I didnt communicate this with her at all, I was hoping she'd know what to do considering you were solo and therefore killing you is the best option if the opportunity is given, which it was. As I've stated above, it wasnt my intention to get you typing, I was just waiting for Ellie to move or crouch so I could get a clear shot on you and so I was stalling. I can see why you thought I meant type, but the fact that you did is rather unfortunate and was not intended.

Dom I don't want to cause bad blood between us over this it's just so fucking clear to me what you planned and carried out and for you to say I never when its clearly obvious by my own microphones recording in the video that you could hear me clearly is just silly. I don't believe that this was your intentions and you couldn't hear me and I wont unless I'm provided with a video or a demo recording

 

[Creepis]

I do understand the point you're making in the thread. People shouldn't take advantage of someone going idle to turn the tide in their favor by making use of their downtime as they currently type in chat or similar as this creates an open window or oppurtunity to act for the opposing party. (Except if they make a F6 or respond to a report or type in (L)OOC, do it afterwards and not mid-RP lol)

The situation you've shown us however is fair and square in my eyes. He didn't exactly tell you to type it out as he said spell it out. Voice chat is the best case scenario but for some reason you still decided to use the chat which left you standing idle. This does however put people with no microphones at a big disadvantage which is why I'd see a rule like this to be some kind of benefit.
It would have to be implemented as a different rule, I currently don't see how this fits into 3.24 or similar.

 

[Dom_]

Dom I don't want to cause bad blood between us over this it's just so fucking clear to me what you planned and carried out and for you to say I never when its clearly obvious by my own microphones recording in the video that you could hear me clearly is just silly. I don't believe that this was your intentions and you couldn't hear me and I wont unless I'm provided with a video or a demo recording

As I said above, I could hear you fine I was just stalling waiting for an opportunity to shoot you, I'm done explaining myself and this certainly isn't something I want to continue arguing about so I'll leave it here. I personally see no issue with what I did and as I said getting you to type it out wasn't my intention.

 

[FatGeorge]

I can see both sides.
As a civilian it does feel like there is very very little incentive to take a hostage and it always ends with a breakout of gunfire. I cannot actually remember the last time a hostage situation worked correctly. And I do also think it is a problem with cops getting a bit itchy and just wanting to get into a shootout rather than RP the situation the whole way (myself included most of the time lmfao).
However on the other hand, as a police officer you will be looking for a quick way to end the situation and neutralize the hostage taker(s).
To me it feels like it would be nice if the playerbase could try to roleplay hostage situations out a bit more rather than shoot the second a pixel appears of the hostage taker. Policy and rule wise it would probably be quite hard to enforce.

 

[Spooda]

I just wanted to highlight again the point of the thread is not to prove the Dom or Ellie were in the wrong its to attempt to find a better solution in order to make a more fun approach to hostage situations that is fair for both parties in the situation.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

I just wanted to highlight again the point of the thread is not to prove the Dom or Ellie were in the wrong its to attempt to find a better solution in order to make a more fun approach to hostage situations that is fair for both parties in the situation.View attachment 14326

I completely agree with you here. Police win every time there is a hostage and any time they lose it is because criminals killed them all first. I never in my time on perp seen a hostage scenario played in a way which is fun and enjoyable for both parties.

Once the criminal gunpoints anybody no matter how important their fate is sealed. Yes I understand these tactics aren't impossible to preform in real life so it can be "realistic" but if we're using the realism argument it is not normal for a police officer to use a gun which is not a sniper (yes you can't use a pistol from across the map that's not how bullet velocity works) to take out a hostage taker. Especially if the hostage taker is quite literally staring at your face as you motion to pull out the gun.

For example If im being gun pointed by a cop and I don't have a gun out I can't pull it out because I am 1 step away from dying while my gun is 3 steps away from saving me:

Cop - step 1 shoot gun
Me - step 1 pull out gun, step 2 take it off safety, step 3 shoot
right?

Let's apply that logic here.

Criminal - Step 1 pull trigger

Cop - Step 1 take off safety, step 2 get a clear shot, step 3 pull trigger

Do you see the logical problem with this?

This is clearly a unnecessarily risky move because it gives too much to from the gun being taken off safety to shooting versus the hostage taker just pressing left click. As well as if there were two hostage takers it would be impossible IRL to calculate their exact direction of travel in most scenarios as they would be rapidly struggling to physically move in coordination to a mode of escape. Making a snipe nearly impossible to work in sync resulting in a unnecessary risk if police were to decide to shoot both down even if they said "3 2 1 snipe" and had 2 snipers aimed at both hostage takers. If one misses due to bullet velocity, wind, asynchronization and path finding of where the target is heading this can all cause the unfortunate death of the life at hand.

The criminal's goal is literally just to run away, you can chase them later. If this was real life the cops aren't going to risk that life by taking their guns off safety, aiming for a shot then pulling the trigger especially if they know that criminal's only way of getting out of there is walking or running so why not chase him and catch him later better off because the hostage will stay alive and the criminal will face justice. Yet no cops ever do that since they always want to get a sneaky kill in and celebrate that they just killed off what could have been a fantastic high speed chase.

 

[Efan]

https://perpheads.com/forums/rule-suggestions.39/