Patrol shouldn't simply be the "vanilla" division

[Aquaa]

The speed cameras are absolutely useless with the policies in place and the map

This is the first time I have ever heard of someone complain about this, even when I was RTU Command there was no complaints. The policy is in place to prevent people obstructing the road which can potentially cause accidents. The highway has 2 different breakdown zones, and many more places such as Business Shops parking lot, Bazaar parking, Roxies parking outside of parker tunnel, subs off ramp, and MANY more places where you can successfully set up efficient speed traps to catch people.

 

[Allen Kennedy]

As a traffic corporal, I don't even use the traffic cars, except the unmarked BMW on occasion, cause it's sexy. I'm only in traffic so I can use /pbc and wheel clamp to more effectively manage crash scenes. Patrol absolutely needs more of a carrot for people to want to stick with it, rather than hopping over to RTU.

 

[Bert]

As much as I hate to admit it I also was a former UwU boy Traffic Command and we used to work on ways we could differentiate ops services as a whole making Patrol more appealing. Restricting the speed cameras is done on purpose. Even with the restrictions of gmod map design you don't see police on the highway obstructing a lane of travel or running radar from the breakdown lane 9/10 times, it's a safety hazard and just asking to tier peoples hyper cars. There are medians, and authorized vehicle spaces for that specific purpose. If you are creative enough you shouldn't have a problem.

Patrol is in a tough spot since it naturally attracts more casual PERP players however once players progress and obtain higher ranks/more responsibility there is little reason for them to stay within the division. To me the most logical step would be removing armor, and the Remington from Traffic units as there is absolutely no reason a traffic unit would need access to such equipment; Whilst I was traffic command I would only ever respond to shootouts if absolutely needed, as what often gets forgotten is it isn't the primary responsibility of RTU. Restricting equipment to further discourage this behavior is the next best step IMO, at which point I think a lot of the patrol supervisors and Corporals would be more inclined to rejoin patrol and pursue positions within the training staff and command.

 

[lencz]

The speed cameras are absolutely useless with the policies in place and the map and how it lacks any breakdown zones on the highway where you most need them to set these up. So there's no real added benefit or loss by adding them to Patrol.

But personally, I think the vehicles should be what separates the units, not the equipment (aside from the hi-vis vest). Give patrol vans that can reach 80mph and that would already be a big upgrade.

I would say it's the second most useful rtu tool, after clamps (not counting vehicles). It's so helpful being able to capture a cars plate without having to ANPR. Either from distance or just seeing a fleeing car, whipping out the speed camera and catching their plate and doing so multiple times in a row. Especially if you have a Clipboard that saves multiple Ctrl + C.

 

[lencz]

To me the most logical step would be removing armor, and the Remington from Traffic units as there is absolutely no reason a traffic unit would need access to such equipment

This might make sense anywhere else, but in perp. Just because Traffic prioritizes Traffic related incidents shouldn't give them a less of a fighting chance against criminals. That would also completely disincentivize Traffic SOs to rank up as they might as well go for TFU and not bother with RTU.

Also I don't see how discouraging people helps. I'm don't like having fights with Patrol for officers. They should have a choice and not be forced to leave a division, because they are limited. I initially disliked Patrol being the only Primary division, but after talking it over with Patrol command and others, I wouldn't really mind.

 

[Bert]

This might make sense anywhere else, but in perp. Just because Traffic prioritizes Traffic related incidents shouldn't give them a less of a fighting chance against criminals. That would also completely disincentivize Traffic SOs to rank up as they might as well go for TFU and not bother with RTU.

Also I don't see how discouraging people helps. I'm don't like having fights with Patrol for officers. They should have a choice and not be forced to leave a division, because they are limited. I initially disliked Patrol being the only Primary division, but after talking it over with Patrol command and others, I wouldn't really mind.

You join traffic for faster cars, and priority to traffic related incidents. Shootouts should be left to specialized units I.E TFU, and in their absence Patrol should have access to equipment that can bridge the gap. Patrol gets armor and guns for firefights. Traffic gets fast cars and traffic vest for traffic things. Seems like it equalizes the balance fairly well. What we need to accept here is that one side is going to be left unhappy because they are loosing something here, the only way serious change can be considered is if we all accept that their is an inherent inequality with the way things are structured that pushes people towards traffic ESPECIALLY past the rank of Corporal; My suggestion would directly address said issue.

The point of any changes should be to incentivize people to move towards patrol, or like has been said make traffic a secondary division. The concept of a secondary traffic division was floating around way back when me and Mim were running the show and even then I believe we still both were on board with equipping traffic officers in light armor and restricting the remington while they had their traffic gear equipped.

 

[peeps]

Changes to balance patrol and RTU would be greatly appreciated

 

[Auston]

Lets break this down and look at the fundamental basics,

Traffic is meant to be focusing on highway management, traffic accidents and pursuits. And they have the appropriate gear to handle that.

Patrol is typically seen as the frontlines of the police department, they are the ones dealing with the domestic disputes, fights, active shootings and other more violent offenses.

Because of this, to make patrol stand out theirs a couple options I see, and all of this can be backed up by actual real life examples.

#1 vehicles more heavily armored. If you've ever been to New York City you will notice the NYPD patrol vehicles have bulletproof glass in the side windows, and they have a thick metal layer on the door to stop bullets. (I dont know if this is possible but having a tougher to destroy vehicle would be an advantage of patrol)

#2 Simply increase the armor of patrol officers, again many examples are inner city patrol officers typically have full bulletproof vests while traffic officers do not. If you increased patrol officers and TFU light to "Heavily armored" instead of "Moderately armored" it could provide some balance.

The only other thing I can think of is possibly giving the Corporal + patrol a small caliber SMG, but this has been argued and denied many times.

Maybe also giving us a vehicle that doesnt totally suck, the Kia is an absolute joke and goes barely over 50mph, and the golf is not anything special either. I think patrol needs to get a proper SUV.

 

[Tilin]

This is the first time I have ever heard of someone complain about this, even when I was RTU Command there was no complaints. The policy is in place to prevent people obstructing the road which can potentially cause accidents. The highway has 2 different breakdown zones, and many more places such as Business Shops parking lot, Bazaar parking, Roxies parking outside of parker tunnel, subs off ramp, and MANY more places where you can successfully set up efficient speed traps to catch people.

This is the first time? How often do you see them in use?

Literally only 2 spots that are interesting for the usage of them, since you can't obstruct traffic or pedestrian flow. Meaning even the unused sidewalk at Roxies can't be used.

Most of the speeding happens in the areas where speed cameras can't be used.

 

[Japzzi/JoeReel]

My biggest issue is the difference in RP provided. I always get at least decent RP from RTU but Patrol feels like they are just waiting for the next shootout to happen.

It is worse as EMS, if a officer is down you better fucking come revive him right now but when you need help? To bad every single officer is trying to counter a raid a slums or somewhere else.

 

[Bnjemann]

It would be stupid to change this, On V4 when officers were assessed practically, having them pick between RTU and Patrol prior to becoming an officer would have been more viable than what we got but now its not going to change.

 

[Nottoc]

My biggest issue is the difference in RP provided. I always get at least decent RP from RTU but Patrol feels like they are just waiting for the next shootout to happen.

It is worse as EMS, if a officer is down you better fucking come revive him right now but when you need help? To bad every single officer is trying to counter a raid a slums or somewhere else.

Well, there is a very easy and simple explanation for this.

Patrol is entry level, you do not have to know anything more than beyond the basics to be a patrol officer. The only thing that stops SO being pretty much the same is the fact that you are required to have ORs otherwise it's pretty much rinse and repeat as the officer application.

For RTU, you do have to be a bit more specific and in-depth with your law knowledge considering that you are required to take on a practical too after answering some multi-choice questions and then written answer questions. The other thing in particular that makes it a bit harder is how limited the RTU learning resources are where you have to scavenge else-where, which proactively will improve your general understanding.

I'm surprised that they haven't trialled a new rank of officer, something between PO and O, where someone who just passes the officer exam, will receive this 'trainee' rank. Similarly to POs, they cannot patrol by themselves but unlike POs, they can patrol with normal officers and above - until they hit a certain amount of hours on the job to become fully-fledged officers.

That way - new officers will be inclined to patrol with those that are more seasoned and gain exposure on how to handle situations from varying officers - broadening their knowledge beyond a simple pop-quiz. Whilst also helping current officers become more confident in their knowledge, leadership and communication skills - helping those that would want to pursue a more senior role within the PLPD. This would mean that there could be some new things added to patrol to distinguish it, without overly exposing too many features to an 'entry-level' cop. Alternatively, introduce some new features for patrol officers but lock it behind senior officer, which would incline people to try to gun for SO more too - as right now, it's not that amazing.

 

[lencz]

The other thing in particular that makes it a bit harder is how limited the RTU learning resources are where you have to scavenge else-where, which proactively will improve your general understanding.

We are already working on making learning RTU specific stuff a tad bit easier. New RTU Handbooks coming soon...

Especially because the current RTU Handbook has outdated info.

 

[Nottoc]

We are already working on making learning RTU specific stuff a tad bit easier. New RTU Handbooks coming soon...

Especially because the current RTU Handbook has outdated info.

That's good to hear!

 

[Bnjemann]

To me the most logical step would be removing armor, and the Remington from Traffic units as there is absolutely no reason a traffic unit would need access to such equipment

You’re saying this as if RTU are solely in existence for traffic incidents and that general policing work also doesn’t entail as part of the job as an officer. At the end of the day, a supervisor is a supervisor, and the Remington 870 exists as a Personal Defensive weapon for incident commanders and to allow an officer to take point in entering a dangerous situation where waiting for TFU isn’t going to be all too viable in terms of saving lives.

Traffic cop, the VIP job that preceded RTU, featured a similar suggestion of disarmament and it was disasterous. God forbid you clock a speeder and find out they’re warranted, you were at least a hostage for the foreseeable future afterwards.

In terms of armour, Nowadays in real life even paramedics are wearing covert stab vests at the very least, it would make absolutely no sense that an officer who is performing policing duties, especially one as directly confrontational and unpredictable as performing traffic stops and pursuing wanted or stolen vehicles to have their armour revoked because they applied for better equipment lol.

Just to give my general opinion on this:

Incentive to remain in Patrol is currently the lesser expectation of commitment to any given role. Having a negative aspect in general ability to perform their duties because they applied for a higher position is absolutely pointless and you’d be punishing officers for applying and proving themselves capable of performing duties.

Incentivising something to remain in a position you didn’t apply for isn‘t a very productive use of time in terms of providing something for the server. A viable method is what @Hayden suggested in making RTU a secondary, but again I don’t personally want that.