Police Suggestion Suggestion to void hostage claims on special circumstances

Jack P

Jack P

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Suggestion Title: Suggestion to void hostage claims on special circumstances
Suggestion Description: So this is probably controversial, but it's getting annoying. A shitton of people often fake hostages, but faking having hostages without having anybody is one thing. This issue is when people is ACTUALLY holding a hostage, but every single time will resort to shoot cops no matter how negotiations goes. You may say "Just stay in cover" but remember, we typically can't have our guns pointed as the hostage takers may feel threatend, plus they still has a much higher advantage.

The point is, if somebody is known to resort to shooting practically every single time, no matter if the negotiations is successful or not, then at this point a claim of "Hostage" should be taken as extremely hostile and grain of salt and try to figure out a solution the same way as failed negotiations(Ofc still with the hostages life in mind but treat it like you would failed negotiation)

Why should this be added?:
- Hopefully less false hostage claims
- Makes the RP much better for both parties as it's annoying asf for cops to get shot every single time trying to make a succesful hostage negotiation
- Creates better RP between both parties

What negatives could this have?:
- It's a 100% gonna annoy certain people, but remember this is ONLY for people who are known to brutally resort to shooting everytime or supermajority of times.

What problem would this suggestion solve?: It would solve less lack of roleplay, and also any irritation and frustration there may be with false calls.
 
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so how would you know if he is going to fake it or no ?

by metagame it such as on its leonard ofc he is lieing ?

also most of the time it end in shootout bc the hostage taker know the moment he go out the apartment and the hostage is scure he is going to get shoot maybe add pollice that if officer give word to hostage take he should stand for it such as " you have 5 min to leave and we wont shoot you or be after you"
 
ALOO89 said:
so how would you know if he is going to fake it or no ?

by metagame it such as on its leonard ofc he is lieing ?

also most of the time it end in shootout bc the hostage taker know the moment he go out the apartment and the hostage is scure he is going to get shoot maybe add pollice that if officer give word to hostage take he should stand for it such as " you have 5 min to leave and we wont shoot you or be after you"
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Im not denying there's cops that can't hold their promises despite the handbook states that preferably it should be held, but this is a 2 way street, cops should hold their words more cause it's literally not that hard to find somebody on a small asf map, and people shouldn't every single time resort to shooting cops everytime cause it's fucking stupid. It's a game, play it, have fun, Roleplay you don't need to win every single time, counts for both parties.
 
Jack P said:
Im not denying there's cops that can't hold their promises despite the handbook states that preferably it should be held, but this is a 2 way street, cops should hold their words more cause it's literally not that hard to find somebody on a small asf map, and people shouldn't every single time resort to shooting cops everytime cause it's fucking stupid. It's a game, play it, have fun, Roleplay you don't need to win every single time, counts for both parties.
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prety sure if i take hostage and ask for 3 mins free escaip they will gp me the first time i get in to my car that how it work if you want i can try to and take make full video of it

and pretty sure if i made IA nothing will happend to the officer since they will say "he did that to save many people live and if he let you go it will be more risk"

if you want i can try it once and pretty sure i will be gp and go to jail or chaced tell shootout happend
 
ALOO89 said:
prety sure if i take hostage and ask for 3 mins free escaip they will gp me the first time i get in to my car that how it work if you want i can try to and take make full video of it

and pretty sure if i made IA nothing will happend to the officer since they will say "he did that to save many people live and if he let you go it will be more risk"

if you want i can try it once and pretty sure i will be gp and go to jail or chaced tell shootout happend
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It's not a specific requirement to 100% go by demands, although they generally should be met. There definitely be some sort of control/policy on that properly too I understand the issue I don't need a video, cause I've experienced first hand several times myself. 3 Minutes is crazy, demands has to be reasonable, in 3 minutes you can literally hide your car etc inside a building but then again, it's not that hard to find somebody so then again my judgement on that is bs, again I'm not stating that the issue is one sided and if I could, I would deal with both but unfortunately all I have rn is the power of suggestions.
 
Jack P said:
It's not a specific requirement to 100% go by demands, although they generally should be met. There definitely be some sort of control/policy on that properly too I understand the issue I don't need a video, cause I've experienced first hand several times myself. 3 Minutes is crazy, demands has to be reasonable, in 3 minutes you can literally hide your car etc inside a building but then again, it's not that hard to find somebody so then again my judgement on that is bs, again I'm not stating that the issue is one sided and if I could, I would deal with both but unfortunately all I have rn is the power of suggestions.
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give me scenario that won't end in shootout without free passage

you said everyone must have fun think as civ not just as cop

personally i cant think of any that will end without shootout
 
+1 Support to this suggestion.

Coming from personal experience, this has happened enough times for me that hostage situations are the one thing I dread to deal with the most as PD. All the instructions and policy and training go up in smoke and are wasted most of the time because hostage takers usually shoot before negotiations could even be set or agreed upon. Or as mentioned before, suspect feign hostages to buy time to regroup and wipe PD out.

This leads to an issue where hostage situations aren’t really RP’ed out as intended most of the time, instead devolving into more gunfights.
 
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I hate how hard it is to roleplay hostage situations.

I respect cops and crims so much when I’m part of situations that end up a clean deal with free passage.

Usually it’s someone looking for any chance to win and escalate a shootout. It just annoying to me personally and unnecessarily shuts down what could’ve been an actually fun roleplay with negotiations with suspense tensions.

Now taking a hostage? That’s kind of the shitty thing. If you’re in it for proper negotiation and interaction, you can get shit from both sides.

A cop can try hard and look for any chance to open fire to kill the hostage takers to skip negotiations.

A criminal can try hard and look for any chance to open fire to kill as many cops as possible when they try to negotiate.

The problem is there are no rules against low quality / low effort roleplay to discourage cops and there is no rule against faking hostage to discourage crims.
 
ALOO89 said:
give me scenario that won't end in shootout without free passage

you said everyone must have fun think as civ not just as cop

personally i cant think of any that will end without shootout
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I didn't say no free passage, I'm all for free passage, but free passage means you can leave without being spiked or shot at and then start a pursuit, not a 3 minute headstart.
 
Eric Jonson said:
I'd personally argue it should be against the rules to fake hostages but thats just my opinion +1 suggestion
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Well most of them has hostages legit hostages, but they just don't carry on with negotiations. But yes fully fake hostages should be against rules as it leaves such an unfair bs advantage. The server is already so heavily raider sided.
 
MalekIsWeird said:
I hate how hard it is to roleplay hostage situations.

I respect cops and crims so much when I’m part of situations that end up a clean deal with free passage.

Usually it’s someone looking for any chance to win and escalate a shootout. It just annoying to me personally and unnecessarily shuts down what could’ve been an actually fun roleplay with negotiations with suspense tensions.

Now taking a hostage? That’s kind of the shitty thing. If you’re in it for proper negotiation and interaction, you can get shit from both sides.

A cop can try hard and look for any chance to open fire to kill the hostage takers to skip negotiations.

A criminal can try hard and look for any chance to open fire to kill as many cops as possible when they try to negotiate.

The problem is there are no rules against low quality / low effort roleplay to discourage cops and there is no rule against faking hostage to discourage crims.
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Should maybe have made some sort of rule suggestion for proper roleplay regarding hostage situations instead, might do after, since this suggestion is likely getting denied.
 
Jack P said:
I didn't say no free passage, I'm all for free passage, but free passage means you can leave without being spiked or shot at and then start a pursuit, not a 3 minute headstart.
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if i was at slums and ask for free passege yes they will let me in the car and go to inter then get spike why would do full negotiate ?

Jack P said:
Well most of them has hostages legit hostages, but they just don't carry on with negotiations. But yes fully fake hostages should be against rules as it leaves such an unfair bs advantage. The server is already so heavily raider sided.
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i dont think its solution to "fake hostage should be against the rules"

if you really want to talk about fair i can list stuff idk when i will be done

1- do cops pay for guns ?

2-if i mute my phone still cops can message me and the phone ring

3-the bank raid the warrnt set atomatic and i cant put mask on my face ?

4- if i have gloves on my hands how still u can find dna ?

5- if i shoot the camera how the dispatch still can see ?

6- how u got unlimited handcuff

7- cops got radio civs cant get AirPods that dont take 25% for the screen ? ?


etc ........

jack try to be crim and find out how plpd are actually over power
 
More of a complaint than a suggestion. Hell, you’ve barely even suggested anything concrete to work with. ‘Special circumstances’ = void hostage situation? What special circumstances? And why should you be able to magically decide when to void that type of roleplay? This will be denied I’m sure but you should put more effort into making an actual idea that can be worked with rather than whatever this is.
 
Jack P said:
The point is, if somebody is known to resort to shooting practically every single time, no matter if the negotiations is successful or not, then at this point a claim of "Hostage" should be taken as extremely hostile and grain of salt and try to figure out a solution the same way as failed negotiations
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What I gather that you are proposing is essentially allowing metagaming of someone's name and previous life's actions to determine how you react to their claims of a hostage. This does not fit in a roleplay gamemode, not to mention that it is impractical and subjective to enforce.

If someone, on the same life, has already killed a hostage/police during negotiations and managed to get away, only to take another hostage (this is extremely rare), you can already use that as a basis to move in as they have proven that they will not negotiate.

This suggestion unfortunately makes less sense than if you had just banned low-effort hostage taking leading to a shootout where peaceful negotiations are not attempted, which I'd still disagree with.
 
Hostage situation SOP already outlines everything and is structured around operating in them safely. A risk you are describing is mitigated by existing SOP in the TFU handbook, generally if suspects are just going to try and attack you mid negotiation, the TFO team should be ready to react to that, as it is always something that can happen. If you’re just blindly assuming because they have a hostage that they aren’t gonna shoot, you’re already failing in your approach. This boils down to a skill issue.

As steelo said, I am failing to gain anything to take away from this, and I’m not gathering anything useful to change this issue, it just seems like you’re complaining about player behaviour, and your solution is you feel as though because you know the players play style from previous experiences, we should be able to waive the right to negotiate entirely based on that?

Such a change could be manipulated into getting out of every hostage situation shooting the hostage takers dead with ease rather than negotiate and normalise it for anyone who knows their way around an IA statement.
 
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