Mugging - A way to encourage minor crime?

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Hello everybody

Welcome to exroibte's wacky theory (NOT conspiracy!!!) corner to discuss mugging and what it provides for the perpheads ecosystem.

What do I mean by "ecosystem"?

I don't know, but it sounds good. Consider that player to player interaction drives most of perphead's gameplay. Whether it be shootouts, barter at bazaar or idle crafting for hours for 50k profit, most of the oppurtunities players have for engaging gameplay is generated by the existence of other players. Roleplay servers are not completely unique in this sense, but it's definitely one of their best qualities.

The "ecosystem" is the way that players interact to generate oppurtunities for engaging in roleplay. For example, criminals raid, cops respond, big shootout. What I want to examine is the avaliable range of ways these interactions are intiated, and whether or not more relaxed mugging rules could contribute in an overall positive way.

Raiding, the be all and end all?

Raiding is the main way that PvP interactions are intiated. Someone raids a property. The raiders then have to defend. Cops may or may not respond depending on whether or not there's been another raid in the last 5 minutes, and it's resolved and done in (typically,) under 3 minutes. It's quick, its easy, it's a rush. But the majority of the player to player interaction is two sides spraying at each other.

Raids are at the extreme end of the "high stakes" scale. Life or death, always, usually with large groups of people at a time. Raiding as an "initiator" of roleplay interaction will typically lead to the same gameplay loop as above. Raids are also fairly closed, each raid begins and ends and it leaves no "loose ends" to be tied up by more player to player interaction. They have their place in PERP, but one tree alone a forest does not make.

Mugger? I hardly know her!

Ok, so, here's what I think. Mugging generates loose ends. Sure, it's not nice to lose your stuff, but, as long as both players follow 3.4/2.5, no one will die. This then can lead to so many more interesting scenarios, with one player having kos on the other, and a grudge to settle. This lasts way longer than a single raid, and generates plenty of fun searching for players to take revenge. It's an excellent way to encourage small scale crime, with lower stakes than raiding. These interactions are smaller scale and thereby more accessible to new players and pistol cops alike.

Mugged off

So, what's the problem with mugging? In my opinion, it's limited to such a small portion of the map that it's very easily avoidable with the right knowledge. If you use your OOC knowledge (aka, metagaming,) of the mugging map you basically circumvent any risk of being mugged. Sure, good for you, but is that really good for the ecosystem? Mugging areas are very specific, and very easily avoided. What if they weren't? What if you had to travel through a mugging zone to get to where you needed to be? What if they were basically everywhere? Making mugging more difficult to avoid makes it more of a part of the game. It also generates a lot of smaller scale roleplay.

Conclusion - What the fuck am I talking about?

Essentially, I do think that while it may be annoying to be mugged, it's a core part of the game that encoruages smaller scale crime and that, by outlining exactly where it can happen, its essentially been removed as a risk to anyone with the right knowledge. In my opinion, it should be a risk to everyone (except new players, don't mug them,) as it makes a lot of fun smaller scale crime.
 
TL;DR
Exrobite argues that player interactions drive Perpheads roleplay, and the current focus on high-stakes raiding limits variety and ongoing engagement. Mugging, while lower-stakes, creates lasting consequences and opportunities for more dynamic, small-scale roleplay. However, current mugging rules restrict it to specific map areas, making it easily avoidable. exrobite suggests loosening these restrictions to better support the roleplay "ecosystem" by encouraging more widespread, organic criminal interactions - just not targeting new players.
 
TL;DR
Exrobite argues that player interactions drive Perpheads roleplay, and the current focus on high-stakes raiding limits variety and ongoing engagement. Mugging, while lower-stakes, creates lasting consequences and opportunities for more dynamic, small-scale roleplay. However, current mugging rules restrict it to specific map areas, making it easily avoidable. exrobite suggests loosening these restrictions to better support the roleplay "ecosystem" by encouraging more widespread, organic criminal interactions - just not targeting new players.
thanks chatgpt

I totally agree with you exrobite.

The way mugging is governed by the rules of the server at this time is literally only punishing the poor / new players and it makes mugging a redundant crime to try.

Following two simple steps basically grants you immunity from ever being mugged and its so easy:

- With experience you know no matter if there are 50 AKs pointed at you, as long as you have a taurus, you don't need to surrender.
- With experience you know where the mugging area is to avoid or to be cautious in (We have a whole map outlining EXACTLY where to watch out for too)
- Everyone is fearless because they know if they die they are immune from dropping the cash in their pockets or the drugs they hold.

I think it should absolutely be thought over.
 
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I know this community will NEVER like the idea, but certain things should drop on death. Guns, drugs, money and maybe magazines. The ability to avoid any repercussion besides losing your weapon as long as you always have it ready is too strong. Somebody that is shot and killed during a raid or mugging shouldn't just drop their gun. Their should be some form of a backpack/trunk where you can access things they had, or just drop it onto the ground if that's easier to implement.

The time you spend trying to mug somebody is 99/100 times a waste of time. Try camping DD and youll just get into a gunfight, go to hicktown and youll be targeting new players and feel bad if you mug them.

I think this could be something changed in V6 obviously if more areas are muggable and not as easily seen from public view

Random thoughts
30% of cash dropped
5/15 mags lootable
100% of drugs dropped
50% of medical items dropped
Things like Holiday items, Materials and props I don't think serve a purpose in this scenario of being a lootable item via death
 
I know this community will NEVER like the idea, but certain things should drop on death. Guns, drugs, money and maybe magazines. The ability to avoid any repercussion besides losing your weapon as long as you always have it ready is too strong. Somebody that is shot and killed during a raid or mugging shouldn't just drop their gun. Their should be some form of a backpack/trunk where you can access things they had, or just drop it onto the ground if that's easier to implement.

The time you spend trying to mug somebody is 99/100 times a waste of time. Try camping DD and youll just get into a gunfight, go to hicktown and youll be targeting new players and feel bad if you mug them.

I think this could be something changed in V6 obviously if more areas are muggable and not as easily seen from public view

Random thoughts
30% of cash dropped
5/15 mags lootable
100% of drugs dropped
50% of medical items dropped
Things like Holiday items, Materials and props I don't think serve a purpose in this scenario of being a lootable item via death

This isn't a bad idea, if you wanted to add some flavour to it you could scale the amount of things you can find on someone based on your perception gene value. But obviously RDM / random sweaters stealing from people would be a major issue unless these things were heavily considered.
 
I know this community will NEVER like the idea, but certain things should drop on death. Guns, drugs, money and maybe magazines. The ability to avoid any repercussion besides losing your weapon as long as you always have it ready is too strong. Somebody that is shot and killed during a raid or mugging shouldn't just drop their gun. Their should be some form of a backpack/trunk where you can access things they had, or just drop it onto the ground if that's easier to implement.

The time you spend trying to mug somebody is 99/100 times a waste of time. Try camping DD and youll just get into a gunfight, go to hicktown and youll be targeting new players and feel bad if you mug them.

I think this could be something changed in V6 obviously if more areas are muggable and not as easily seen from public view

Random thoughts
30% of cash dropped
5/15 mags lootable
100% of drugs dropped
50% of medical items dropped
Things like Holiday items, Materials and props I don't think serve a purpose in this scenario of being a lootable item via death
imo this would make raiding way to hard especially for newer players. Most raids that arent done by zergs of top leaderboards cops will win, this will make raiding so much less profitable since cops have literally nothing to lose apart from 5 mins of pay whereas every raid crims lose they will need gear up on all of these random things.

I completely disagree with losing any of those things on death apart from drugs.
 
imo this would make raiding way to hard especially for newer players. Most raids that arent done by zergs of top leaderboards cops will win, this will make raiding so much less profitable since cops have literally nothing to lose apart from 5 mins of pay whereas every raid crims lose they will need gear up on all of these random things.

I completely disagree with losing any of those things on death apart from drugs.

There are ways of doing it that might be better balanced.

For example, ONLY the guy who kills you can take your stuff (by pressing E on your body, nothing physical would drop,) and (obviously,) only civillians can do this.
 
There are ways of doing it that might be better balanced.

For example, ONLY the guy who kills you can take your stuff (by pressing E on your body, nothing physical would drop,) and (obviously,) only civillians can do this.
i think all civilians being able to loot 100% of the drugs or cash you had on you at the time of death would fix so many problems. To name a few:

- Drug sales start holding a risk instead of being a guaranteed paycheck with a chance of losing a pistol
- Players begin to roleplay fearing for their life
- Sellers will think twice before raising their weapon under threat of superior firepower or multiple assailants.
- Raiding is more rewarding
- Defenders in a raid can't quickly harvest and die with the drugs on them.
- Players who break 3.4 and fail to surrender suffer automatically give up the drugs they would've lost anyway,
- Staff don't have to force the rule breaker to hand over the drugs
- the mugger does not have to be frustrated about not earning what was supposed to be mugged


i can go on and on
 
Cant speak for how the server is now, but from when I was a user/staff, mugging used to be such a pain in the ass because the AMOUNT of people that break 3.4

Along with this, even if you had evidence to convict the player of breaking 3.4, you still would NOT receive their items and they would get a warning, or a short ban, which I personally thought was stupid.

Yes it is up to "Staff Discretion" but a lot of the time people would rather take a warning or a short ban then lose 150k+ worth of items, which should not be the case. If the player is clearly breaking 3.4, and is experienced, or even simply knows what 3.4 is and they are actively avoiding following it then should be punished HARSHLY. (Yes some mugging situations can be iffy, but im not applying it to that)

You used to get longer bans back in the day for the smallest of things, and now, from even looking at scam bans now, unless someone is a serial offender they get silly punishments, admittedly it can be a general mistake as I don't know the ins and outs of every situation, as yes mistakes happen.

As some people have said, being able to loot dead people would work, but would also cause more harm then good with 2.5 ect and then would cause more time and drain on the staff then getting it back. (EDIT: Possibly would work if someone is within X area of the drug dealer npc/dealer area you can loot the body if the person dies?)
 
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Along with this, even if you had evidence to convict the player of breaking 3.4, you still would NOT receive their items and they would get a warning, or a short ban, which I personally thought was stupid.
This is literally the worst thing on perpheads I remember a non new player breaking 3.4 so blatantly and whipping out an ak101 under gp killing me which I never got refunded because of this stupid rule. It has genuinely made me rage quit perp so many times.
 
Cant speak for how the server is now, but from when I was a user/staff, mugging used to be such a pain in the ass because the AMOUNT of people that break 3.4

Along with this, even if you had evidence to convict the player of breaking 3.4, you still would NOT receive their items and they would get a warning, or a short ban, which I personally thought was stupid.

Yes it is up to "Staff Discretion" but a lot of the time people would rather take a warning or a short ban then lose 150k+ worth of items, which should not be the case. If the player is clearly breaking 3.4, and is experienced, or even simply knows what 3.4 is and they are actively avoiding following it then should be punished HARSHLY. (Yes some mugging situations can be iffy, but im not applying it to that)

You used to get longer bans back in the day for the smallest of things, and now, from even looking at scam bans now, unless someone is a serial offender they get silly punishments, admittedly it can be a general mistake as I don't know the ins and outs of every situation, as yes mistakes happen.

As some people have said, being able to loot dead people would work, but would also cause more harm then good with 2.5 ect and then would cause more time and drain on the staff then getting it back. (EDIT: Possibly would work if someone is within X area of the drug dealer npc/dealer area you can loot the body if the person dies?)
Tbf most bans are strict but I dont know what u say is strict and isn't i still hear people whinning about that stuff already but ye I agree I dont bother mugging my org tried force withdrawing some guy and he just broke gp and died with the shit smh
 
Tbf most bans are strict but I dont know what u say is strict and isn't i still hear people whinning about that stuff already but ye I agree I dont bother mugging my org tried force withdrawing some guy and he just broke gp and died with the shit smh
Strict? Most recent ban on scam bans. Guy stole 100k and then broke gunpoint because he "Had no sound"? 1 previous ban for 3.4, 2 previous punishments for 3.4 and has played here for over a month? (Cant confirm whether or not the guy gave the 100k back or not, but still) 3 day ban seems kinda light, and judging from the guys general punishments he likes to fuck about. But as I said, I don't know the ins and outs of the situation, or evidence provided, just going from what it looks like

This guy got off a month ban 5 days ago, for prop pushing, he did the same thing today and got a month ban. 4 of his bans are for prop pushing. Most of his bans include notes of him generally not caring
When informed he would be banned, prop pushed yet another vehicle.

These are the 2 most recent bans

disclaimer: No dissing towards any staff, just explaining how it looks from an outside POV. This thread is about mugging situation so rather keep as that
 
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Strict? Most recent ban on scam bans. Guy stole 100k and then broke gunpoint because he "Had no sound"? 1 previous ban for 3.4, 2 previous punishments for 3.4 and has played here for over a month? (Cant confirm whether or not the guy gave the 100k back or not, but still) 3 day ban seems kinda light, and judging from the guys general punishments he likes to fuck about. But as I said, I don't know the ins and outs of the situation, or evidence provided, just going from what it looks like
Ye I agree with this one but sometimes it's either too strict or too light like I've seen people be actual brainlets and just rdm people or whatever and get light bans but also im not staff so im not gonna bitch in this thread if I have not much clue but I agre however it's hard to find a middle between too light and too extreme.
 
I personally am willing to put in the extra effort of refunding players but it is a pain in the ass when they don’t comply with you. Yes you can ban them longer but players would still not get their items or need them “duplicated” via a RR.

It is even more work for devs to manually remove items from their inventory/storage.
It is also a lot of work to check what they had so imo limit it to only money and drugs and not generic items like mags ammo etc so it is do-able for staff too.


Edit: with fast response time to a report it is easier but you cannot expect that 24/7
 
As some people have said, being able to loot dead people would work, but would also cause more harm then good with 2.5 ect and then would cause more time and drain on the staff then getting it back. (EDIT: Possibly would work if someone is within X area of the drug dealer npc/dealer area you can loot the body if the person dies?)
Would cause more harm than good with 2.5? Can you elaborate?

My hot take is if you are ballsy enough to walk around with a big lump of cash in your pocket or tons of drugs you can't afford to lose, then it is on you if you are killed for it by a civilian because you chose to incur that risk. Furthermore, I think the effect this change would have on the amount of work staff have to do can go either way.
 
Would cause more harm than good with 2.5? Can you elaborate?

My hot take is if you are ballsy enough to walk around with a big lump of cash in your pocket or tons of drugs you can't afford to lose, then it is on you if you are killed for it by a civilian because you chose to incur that risk. Furthermore, I think the effect this change would have on the amount of work staff have to do can go either way.
By 2.5 I mean for the people being randomly killed, run over ect. Say a sweater punch whoring people in spawn, or a mass RDMer at bazzar. It would be a massive pain in the ass for staff to get everyones items back after it

I briefly mentioned at the bottom ; having areas near the DD which if someone is dead, you can can loot their bodies, for cash items ect which could possibly work imo. (Possibly muggable areas?)
 
I personally am willing to put in the extra effort of refunding players but it is a pain in the ass when they don’t comply with you. Yes you can ban them longer but players would still not get their items or need them “duplicated” via a RR.

It is even more work for devs to manually remove items from their inventory/storage.
It is also a lot of work to check what they had so imo limit it to only money and drugs and not generic items like mags ammo etc so it is do-able for staff too.


Edit: with fast response time to a report it is easier but you cannot expect that 24/7
Sounds like the solution to this is to make it as hassle free as it can be for staff to transfer items from one person’s inventory to another without relying on their compliance or on developers to manually do it.

All of these proposed solutions have pretty significant drawbacks that will undoubtedly negatively affect rule abiding players at some point.

Administrators should be encouraged to use the tools available to refund the player or at the very least approve the player to escalate it into a refund request if they wish.
 
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