Ban Dispute (SamSN)

[External Appeals]

Punishment Type: Ban
Appeal Type: Dispute
Which staff member issued the punishment?: SamSN
How long were you banned/blacklisted for?: 1 Week

Your Steam Name: killerbad22
Your Roleplay Name: Nathan Kotze
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:635968680

Why were you banned/blacklisted?: 2.5, 3.4, 5.6 - Player assisted in kidnapping a police officer for no reason before releasing them a few minutes later and subsequently killed the officer when they attempted to arrest him for his actions, this then ignited a 20-minute gunfight between his organization and police, during which they repeatedly ignored opportunities to leave the scene and instead opted to repeatedly reignite the gunfight.

Why should this appeal be considered?: I already received a warning for not leaving a week prior to this by @Ellie.

Then recently I received a ban instead after @SamSN reviewed and handled this thread.

Ban Dispute (Ellie)

Punishment Type: Ban Appeal Type: Dispute[Evidence] Which staff member issued the punishment?: Ellie How long were you banned/blacklisted for?: 2 Weeks Your Steam Name: Lhealey05 Your Roleplay Name: Lewis Ent Your SteamID: STEAM_0:1:711786944 Why were you banned/blacklisted?: 2.5, 3.4...

perpheads.com

In doing so I believe some mistakes were made along the way, since I was never given a chance to justify my actions. Instead I feel a lot of things were assumed. Now I would like to clarify a few things.

By ban reason states the following:
2.5, 3.4, 5.6 - Player assisted in kidnapping a police officer for no reason before releasing them a few minutes later…

I did not assist in the kidnapping of the police officer. To give you the full context I nearly got punched to death. My HP was very low in this video. The police officer was blocking the door and I therefore pushed him inside. I did that because I was trying to retrieve my firearm so I could deal with the situation (which you can hear me say in the video) that I was still involved in from before. Which had nothing to do with this situation in any shape or form. To make it clear, I went inside the shop to get my firearm and I then left right after again. In the beginning I didn’t even realize the officer was zip tied. It was only till the officer said something along the lines of:
“I’ts six times this weekend I’ve been taken hostage”

I replied
“It happened to me yesterday”
Here I’m referring to a situation yesterday, where Lewis did the exact same thing to me. Jokingly took me hostage and let me go shortly after without any harm.

This, and the friendly monologue between the officer and the people inside the shop led me to believe they were just joking around. But at no point did I actually participate. With one minor exception. As I explained earlier, am I still a little angry that I nearly got killed and as things were really chaotic I only for a brief second told the officer to shut up while gunpointing him, which you could say is the only actual involvement I had in the whole situation before the officer was shot.

I then left the room to return out and find the person who nearly killed me just a moment before the video evidence begins. I did not force the officer to watch tv or whatever and was not involved in all of that in any sort of way.

…and subsequently killed the officer when they attempted to arrest him for his actions, this then ignited a 20-minute…
I don’t think it’s fair to make me directly responsible for another person’s actions and even more so, I did not attribute the player’s direct involvement in any way. It was an independent action taken by another player to kill the officer when he attempted to arrest him. I did not ignite the 20-minute shootout. I only got involved AFTER the officer was killed as my organization member was in danger. Only then I became directly involved in the situation.

…20-minute gunfight between his organization and police, during which they repeatedly ignored opportunities to leave the scene and instead opted to repeatedly reignite the gunfight.
The last part of the ban is more or less the same reason that was earlier in the warning I received when @Ellier first explained the situation. And to be fair, this situation was really awful. We should have left earlier and we did when we were notified. When that’s said I’m really inexperienced with these things and kept myself in the background most of the time because I was so laggy and a little confused. I believe I killed 1, at most 2 officers doing that whole situation. But I learned my lesson and shit like that won’t happen again.

I only think it’s fair that the reason for my ban is reviewed again. I understand why the video might give someone the wrong impression, when you don’t know the full context of the situation. But now you do.

Additional Information: https://perpheads.com/threads/ban-dispute-ellie.56025/#post-424262
@SamSN also responded with this to a dispute
“
…

Additionally, my time looking through your demo gave me an excellent opportunity to see why this combat started in the first place, which is where I discovered that the entire situation started because you and @nathan kotze decided to take an officer hostage for no real reason, release him a few minutes later, kill him when he inevitably attempted to arrest you, then use it as an excuse to start a shootout with the police that turned up as a result.

…

The only slight mistake that Ellie made in this was that she stated that this happened over a 30-minute period when it was just under 20, although I can see her reasoning for believing this.
…
”

Again, I just wanna say that I feel like I’m getting blamed for something I have no control over. This was not my decision. Neither did I decide to take anyone hostage. Neither did I release anyone. Neither did I kill him, I only shot after the first bullet was already fired. But I had no control over how that shit show started.

I’m starting school next monday. So I was really hoping to be playing a little perp for the rest of vacation. So I feel that it is very unfortunate how this situation that happened Monday suddenly went from a warning to a ban for reasons I had no involvement in or control over.

I made an external punishment appeal because I have the wrong email on my account and I can not confirm or change it for some reason.

Evidence:

https://tfu.wtf/xeDo1/XIKIjIqo72.mp4/raw

 

[3izu]

After taking a look at both disputes and all the evidence provided we feel that the punishment is valid.

You were clearly involved in the act of taking the officer hostage, the moment you decided to push the officer into the shop you involved yourself with it, your attempt to go inside the shop could've easily been done if you have just gone around him as there was a lot of space or you could've asked him to move out of the way. You further cemented the fact you were taking the officer hostage by taking out your pistol aiming at him and telling him to shut up.

After the cop attempted to arrest his kidnappers, you also decided to shoot finishing off the officer, there was just no need for that given the fact that you guys would've just been arrested for a 4-year sentence. You guys started a shootout over nothing, there was nothing to risk your life or freedom for.

9.4 Unlawful Detainment​

The detainment of a person against their will unless the person has committed a criminal offence or their detainment is in order to facilitate their apprehension by law enforcement officers.

Felony - liable to 4 years maximum imprisonment and $3,000 maximum fine.

3.4 Putting your Life at Risk​

Any actions taken by a player that may put their In-Character life, freedom from imprisonment or general well being at risk must be done so in a realistic fashion and for beneficial reasons.



This rule is specifically relevant to the violation of any In-Character law, meaning that murders, thefts, etc, are all expected to be conducted realistically;



A few common examples of unreasonable risks includes, but is not limited to:

• Running on the highway without a justifiable reason
• Loitering around the vicinity of a shootout you are not a part of or being within the line of fire from both intentional and accidental fire. Users must flee the scene of a shootout and wait for police to clear the scene and reopen the area to the public. This applies regardless of you being restrained or not.
• Murdering a police officer(s) to avoid yourself or others receiving a minor punishment, such as a small ticket or a minor jail sentence
• Loitering around the scene of a crime you committed with the intention of engaging in more combat
• To not comply with reasonable orders given under the direct threat of a lethal weapon pointed at you, such as a mugging.
• Committing a violent or serious crime, such as murder, theft, arson, etc. whilst knowing that police are in direct eyeshot of the scene you wish to commit the crime at.
• After committing a crime, relevant precautions should be taken to avoid arrest or police attention, such as avoiding public places.

Some valid reasons to kill police officers include:

• Risk of a long prison sentence
• Preventing the imminent detection of drug production.
• Committing a violent crime police would reasonably use lethal force to apprehend you for.

There was no risk of a long prison sentence for you guys to start a shootout, there was also no benefit of you guys kidnapping the officer at all.

You had control over everything, no one told you to push the cop or to shoot him.

As @SamSN is an administrator they can override whatever decision @Ellie has made.

After taking a look at your previous appeal and this dispute, you seem to have a history of being dishonest as a result of these findings and taking a look at your attempt to deceive @SamSN about the situation. Your ban will be extended from 1 week to 2 weeks 1.6 will be added to your ban reason.

1.6 Co-operation and Evasion​

Players must cooperate and follow any instructions or requests given to them by staff members, in relation to in-character and community-related situations.


If a staff member requests information about an incident, users must respond honestly and without omission. PERPHeads uses an automatic demo recording feature which is not to be disabled or tampered with at any time; recordings will be available in garry's mod/demos. If a staff member requests a demo file, and that demo file was recorded within the last 21 days, you are obligated to upload it (i.e. users may safely delete demos which are older than 21 days). It is the user's responsibility to ensure that there is enough disk space on the drive that Garry's Mod is installed on to ensure that demos record. Staff members must give user’s a minimum of 24 hours to allow the user to find the specific evidence needed for the situation.

If you have any issues with the way it was dealt with you can always feel free to make a staff complaint.

Reviewed with @Sean @Sindarin @Oddy