Ban Dispute (Valentine)

[The Holgh]

Punishment Type: Ban
Appeal Type: Dispute
Which staff member issued the punishment?: Valentine
How long were you banned/blacklisted for?: 3 Weeks

Your Steam Name: Frank
Your Roleplay Name: Vito Andolini
Your SteamID: STEAM_0:0:61373815

Why were you banned/blacklisted?: I was banned for blowing up a remote explosive to kill 2 raiders, in which there were also 2 collaterals being my 2 orgmates

Why should this appeal be considered?: Hello, I will now paint the picture of what happened, I had just respawned after I had raided the Slums Apartments, and I went over to office and I learned that we were being raided, I had no gun on me at this time as I had just died, but I did however have a remote explosive on me, so I planted the remote explosive next to the raiders car and I decided to wait at the city gas-station to blow it up as the raiders came out and got inside their car. So I waited and finally I see the 2 raiders come outside and get in their car and I detonate the explosive and I managed to take them both out, a magnificent play. Then maybe 30 minutes after this had occurred I was contacted by an admin who said I killed 2 members of my organization as well, which I had no idea about, I also contacted my organization members after I was banned and asked them where they were when they died to the explosion, they said "We were outside waiting for NLR" as they had already died in that very same raid. Rule 2.5 states that I have to make sure that no one who is uninvolved is affected when using a bomb, I would very strongly make the case that no one who was not directly involved died or was affected.

 

[TylerReadman1]

Involved:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is you on the left no?

And even if this isn't you, how do you know the precise timing? You have to be staring at us as well as your 2 friends right next to the car no?

 

[The Holgh]

Involved:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is you on the left no?
View attachment 16868
And even if this isn't you, how do you know the precise timing? You have to be staring at us as well as your 2 friends right next to the car no?

Don't think that's me I was standing over at the pumps at the time, irrelevant regardless

 

[curak]

Please provide evidence within 48hours, or this dispute will be denied.

 

[TinySlayer]

You killed 4 people. Two of them were raiding Office and two were basing in Office.

The two innocent people that you killed were @Willy Paolucci and Ben Daniels (who does not have a forum account).

 

[The Holgh]

You killed 4 people. Two of them were raiding Office and two were basing in Office.

The two innocent people that you killed were @Willy Paolucci and Ben Daniels (who does not have a forum account).

Yes I am aware of precisely this, the "two innocents" were my orgmembers who had already died in that very same raid and were outside waiting for NLR timer, I did not see them outside when I blew the explosive, nor did they have any reason to be there infact them being there was a direct NLR rulebreak, so who were the supposed innocent's that were affected enough to ban me for 3 weeks? Even if them being there wasn't the cause of a direct rule-break, I would argue that they are involved in the raid either way since they are also basing there, thereby making 2.5 non applicable in this instance.

 

[Efan]

Yes I am aware of precisely this, the "two innocents" were my orgmembers who had already died in that very same raid and were outside waiting for NLR timer, I did not see them outside when I blew the explosive, nor did they have any reason to be there infact them being there was a direct NLR rulebreak, so who were the supposed innocent's that were affected enough to ban me for 3 weeks?

Provide the demo please

 

[TinySlayer]

Yes I am aware of precisely this, the "two innocents" were my orgmembers who had already died in that very same raid and were outside waiting for NLR timer

A reminder of Rule 2.5:

Players may not excessively impact the experience of others in a negative manner, unless the actions are a proportionate escalation of negative actions that have been performed against the original player.

To deny that you broke this rule, you need to assert that either:

• You did not negatively impact those two players
• Those players performed an action against you that you escalated

Furthermore, there is no part of Rule 2.5 that states refers to uninvolved players, only uninvolved players items.

 

[The Holgh]

A reminder of Rule 2.5:


To deny that you broke this rule, you need to assert that either:

• You did not negatively impact those two players
• Those players performed an action against you that you escalated

Furthermore, there is no part of Rule 2.5 that states refers to uninvolved players, only uninvolved players items.

I mean, if you were to ask the 2 players they would say that it wasn't an issue and they would want me unbanned, in short if you I get an "All Good" from both of my organization members that blew up, and I show you that I was killing raiders, that is what you need?

 

[The Holgh]

In short, 2 raiders died, and my 2 organization members died, for the raiders it was an appropriate action, and my organization members don't care about it and want me unbanned, so I did in fact not negatively impact them as they couldn't care less and just want me unbanned.

 

[The Holgh]

A reminder of Rule 2.5:


To deny that you broke this rule, you need to assert that either:

• You did not negatively impact those two players
• Those players performed an action against you that you escalated

Furthermore, there is no part of Rule 2.5 that states refers to uninvolved players, only uninvolved players items.

Hello, @Willy Paolucci has spoken to Racxes about this incident and clarified it a bit, I've been unable to reach Ben but he was also affiliated with our organization.

 

[Collier]

@Valentine has kindly lowered the ban to 5 days as you did still break rule 2.5 by causing a lot of unnecessary damage to those who did not affect you negatively. That being said, as the collateral damage only affected players who were in your organization or were basing with you and did not really mind.

I will close this dispute now.