Police Suggestion DNA Analysis for Broken Crowbar/Lockpicks

[sza]

Suggestion Title: DNA Analysis for Broken Crowbar/Lockpicks

Suggestion Description: Allow Officers to use the DNA Sampling Tool to identify the identity of who recently used and broke crowbars/lockpicks on entryways and exits (or anything similar to make this more useful)


Why should this be added?:
It was my understanding that one of the driving forces behind the addition was to eliminate the need for /me and /describe gameplay. Currently, there is no way to link these broken items to any one suspect, so I feel as though it's largely useless unless you physically witnessed the suspect attempting to break-in in which case you wouldn't need the broken evidence at the door in the first place. I don't see how the current state of the feature would assist in anything other than having proof that a door was broken into, that doesn't really help us catch a criminal without having to do /me|describe gameplay, and which we also sometimes already have door alarms for to verify.


What negatives could this have?:

• First initial thought was that this could be considered "too op" or an overstep for the PLPD and its ability to hunt down targets. Then, I think about the nature of the entire DNA system in general and how that exists regardless, so it's hard to a argue that we haven't already gone above and beyond with the tools capabilities. Still, that is a very valid negative that I think many people will instantly resonate with.
• This provides a decent advantage for base owners as any added ability to the police department in the aid of neutralizing criminal activity is a plus from their perspective. Of course, this is a disadvantage to criminals who are unsuccessful at breaking into a property because they will be hunted down eventually.

To balance, perhaps the time that it exists in the world could be reduced. Maybe the time to analyze could be doubled/tripled granting more opportunity for the criminal to depart/escape. You could sell gloves that allow criminals to shield their DNA from getting caught on crowbars and lockpicks for a certain number of uses. Etc.


What problem would this suggestion solve?: Today, I witnessed a criminal run away from a break-in alarm but was not able to prove any more than usual that they were involved without the use of /me and /describe. The door contained a broken lock-pick, but since I could not interact with this feature in any way shape or form, it did not aid in my investigation at all. The suspect had no more lockpicks on their person, so I couldn't even make the connection there either. The update post mentions that you no longer need to /me attempted break-ins, but more importantly, the majority of the /me's and /describes were in specific relation to the suspicious & detained criminal within the vicinity of the break-in and checking to see if the crowbars and/or lockpicks on their person were used recently (checking for scratches). at which point you could easily reason that they contributed to the recent break-in that drew the attention.

To answer, this suggestion eliminates the need for that /command roleplay and makes the gameplay more seamless which is what I imagine was the main purpose of adding the feature.

Useful Images:

 

[Kali]

it would be very useful but then what if ur a regular officer and u need a sgt or ems to come just to verify something for this to work all officer ranks should have the dna tool

 

[sza]

it would be very useful but then what if ur a regular officer and u need a sgt or ems to come just to verify something for this to work all officer ranks should have the dna tool

That would/should just be up to the Officer to progress through the PLPD to gain this ability imo. Regular Officers need a SGT+ or EMS to come DNA bodies just the same, so nothing really changes here in that regard. I'm not suggesting all Officers get the DNA tool, just that the tool itself gain this new power.

 

[Tilin]

it would be very useful but then what if ur a regular officer and u need a sgt or ems to come just to verify something for this to work all officer ranks should have the dna tool

The point of it onpy being available to Sergeants is that you can get away with murder.

 

[Goonsberg]

I personally feel this just would take away the need for investigation skills.

If there is a crowbar on the floor and some fella stood next to it then you can do the maths.

If you find a broken crowbar on the floor and no one near it, then the crook should remain unknown.

As a certified cop main, although crim has ak, this is OP.

 

[AceAb0]

Or make it when cops press E on someone with their fist they can see information

 

[MalekIsWeird]

As a certified cop main, although crim has ak, this is OP.

pretty much sums up this whole post.

 

[DexterAlaq]

whats point of gloves then?

 

[MalekIsWeird]

whats point of gloves then?

The same question can be asked for how DNA still links back to you despite wearing gloves while shooting or throwing a grenade.

It's not a argument

The fact this idea is OP and would basically make the server a constant Police State is a better point.

 

[Mage]

I don't see how people are downvoting complaining this would be OP.

Most of the time you react to a crowbar or bobby pin based off audio and do not have line of sight on the perpetrator, as soon as there is more than 1 individual in the vacinity, your odds of charging the right person for attempted burglarly or theft are next to 0, so you can't do shit.

Besides that, this would mostly aid in charging people for attempted crimes, because otherwise the person has either already stolen a car, and thus it's already to identify the individual, or they're trespassing on somebody's property and are probably gonna shoot you anyway as they're raiding, so in the absolute worst case you catch some idiot with a gun on them, you'll give them 4 years for attempted 11.11.

The update is nice, but there is almost very little use for the props beyond property owners no longer having "prove" their door or car has been tampered with, which has extremely limited roleplay scenarios where it actually gets an individual punished. Also, the props have a fair timer on them, it's not like supervisors are just going to be driving around the place DNA'ing parking lots and doors with debris on them, especially when they're fairly difficult to spot at a distance.

 

[DexterAlaq]

The same question can be asked for how DNA still links back to you despite wearing gloves while shooting or throwing a grenade.

It's not a argument

The fact this idea is OP and would basically make the server a constant Police State is a better point.

thats more of a gameplay feature but bullet casings could still be an arguement for that and imo i think this should be added as the dna tool is limited to EMS and sgts+

 

[MalekIsWeird]

I don't see how people are downvoting complaining this would be OP.

Most of the time you react to a crowbar or bobby pin based off audio and do not have line of sight on the perpetrator, as soon as there is more than 1 individual in the vacinity, your odds of charging the right person for attempted burglarly or theft are next to 0, so you can't do shit.

Besides that, this would mostly aid in charging people for attempted crimes, because otherwise the person has either already stolen a car, and thus it's already to identify the individual, or they're trespassing on somebody's property and are probably gonna shoot you anyway as they're raiding, so in the absolute worst case you catch some idiot with a gun on them, you'll give them 4 years for attempted 11.11.

The update is nice, but there is almost very little use for the props beyond property owners no longer having "prove" their door or car has been tampered with, which has extremely limited roleplay scenarios where it actually gets an individual punished. Also, the props have a fair timer on them, it's not like supervisors are just going to be driving around the place DNA'ing parking lots and doors with debris on them, especially when they're fairly difficult to spot at a distance.

I disagree.

Roleplay scenarios aren't limited due to anything except the laziness or close-minded thinking that some officers approach attempted burglaries with. I say this because while I do agree with you that officers having a way to pursue attempted burglaries is good, I believe they already do have one.

This idea provides a fool-proof method at linking back any and all attempts immediately back to the exact suspect with his/her full identity making the roleplay even more lazy and half-assed with 0 investigation work necessary without any counter-play opportunity for the criminal like @Goonsberg said more politely. Thus, the conclusion, the suggested game-mechanic is OP.

I also would, from my understanding, say that most officers don't have the interest in investigating who was behind an attempted 11.11. They usually clear the building then move on to the next call. But for the officers that DO have that interest, then they can follow the same method every officer who does investigate has been doing:

1) Apprehend the suspects around attempted door (now crowbar debris helps immensely pinpoint which door and the proximity the cops are dealing with)
2) Bring them to the door that was attempted
3) "/me checks if there are recent scratches on the individual's hands indicating recent lockpicking attempt"

Done, easy. If the person has fled the scene then the criminal should be scot free because they were neither identified or apprehended.

 

[Mage]

I disagree.

Roleplay scenarios aren't limited due to anything except the laziness or close-minded thinking that some officers approach attempted burglaries with. I say this because while I do agree with you that officers having a way to pursue attempted burglaries is good, I believe they already do have one.

This idea provides a fool-proof method at linking back any and all attempts immediately back to the exact suspect with his/her full identity making the roleplay even more lazy and half-assed with 0 investigation work necessary without any counter-play opportunity for the criminal like @Goonsberg said more politely. Thus, the conclusion, the suggested game-mechanic is OP.

I also would, from my understanding, say that most officers don't have the interest in investigating who was behind an attempted 11.11. They usually clear the building then move on to the next call. But for the officers that DO have that interest, then they can follow the same method every officer who does investigate has been doing:

1) Apprehend the suspects around attempted door (now crowbar debris helps immensely pinpoint which door and the proximity the cops are dealing with)
2) Bring them to the door that was attempted
3) "/me checks if there are recent scratches on the individual's hands indicating recent lockpicking attempt"

Done, easy. If the person has fled the scene then the criminal should be scot free because they were neither identified or apprehended.

More gameplay features should be added where possible to remove the necessity of using "/me". Not every player is as committed to these interactions, especially new players, and often they can feel awkward/forced if the player is restrained and so your point of there being "no counterplay" is already evident whenever police officers are using "/me" in very inconsistent manners to interrogate and force information out of a player, and it gives the player an opportunity to lie - while against the rules, still happens. Instead the DNA tool would give an in-game mechanic that can help the investigative process and it would still require police to be in the right place at the right time to actually interpret the evidence correctly, as there is a fair timeframe on the debris despawning.

Let’s consider you hear a crowbar being used in a parking lot, but when you arrive, you find two individuals with no crowbars on them, only debris by a car. What are you supposed to do? Under the current system, you can't charge either person because there’s no solid evidence linking them to the crime, despite it being clear that a crime was attempted. Meaning you literally can't do your job as a police officer because you lack investigative tools to do so. Isn't that the definition of being underpowered?

As you mentioned, officers can use "/me" for roleplay, but this same argument could have been made against the introduction of the most recent injury system update or the gun descriptions that show if a weapon has been fired. Yet, both of these additions are widely regarded as improvements that significantly enhance the ability of officers to investigate and gather evidence.

 

[money]

Let’s consider you hear a crowbar being used in a parking lot, but when you arrive, you find two individuals with no crowbars on them, only debris by a car. What are you supposed to do? Under the current system, you can't charge either person

So what you do is approach them and make it clear you are detaining them both. Then you say you watched them do it, and then you ask 'what is the purpose of you, you got a gun or something to provide a support while he breaks into the car?' but look around and not at either guy. Wait for response. If either denies involvement, say you do not wish to pursue arresting either or giving harsh sentences if they are honest since you already saw the whole thing, and will arrest them anyway if they are not honest about their motives. Make it clear you want to know WHY they did it, not IF.

If they do not respond or not wish to talk, among your questions discreetly ask them for their names to identify, and then continue the conversation a little more with a short follow up question. They will feel incline to answer it before giving name. You use this later if they do not talk, if they didnt talk until now but they do now, then you got them talking, look at previous points. Identify if chopshop car in the meantime. If they didn't identify themselves at all, charge them for that.

Now if they don't talk after providing name, determine how long it has been since you came. Optionally transport them to PD but do not drag either to car or otherwise and instead give them lawful orders to follow to allow yourself the credibility to charge them for 6.5 for not following lawful order if it arises. Then if they completely refused to talk, depending on how long has it been since you came, if reasonable time, then charge them with failure to report a crime to police (contact (communicate) the crime to police).

Try to fish for any false information for fuel to charge them with 6.1, by asking them questions which free them of guilt completely, but in the form of a Yes/No question, where you include a detail which would be false information they would hold ("No one was breaking into any car here just now right? Honestly, it might've been the other parking lot or car. Is that the case, yeah?"). You funnel them into a yes.


If they hold ground, at the scene of the crime, leave them unattended for a minute and tell them 'Stop here and don't move, until I get the car', or similar. Have your partner lurk nearby to see if they try to book it.

You need only one guy to falter, and then hold a looming charge over his head by giving him maximum ticket for the crime (before jailing or at scene of crime). Say you can and will do the same to his friend in his friends presence even though you were just planning to give them a ticket. Then they will likely confess, giving you fuel. Use jail hallway as interrogation area if needed for looming possibility of high ticket and arrest.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

More gameplay features should be added where possible to remove the necessity of using "/me".

I agree with this, However this suggestion isn't about that.

Not every player is as committed to these interactions, especially new players, and often they can feel awkward/forced if the player is restrained and so your point of there being "no counterplay" is already evident whenever police officers are using "/me" in very inconsistent manners to interrogate and force information out of a player, and it gives the player an opportunity to lie - while against the rules, still happens. Instead the DNA tool would give an in-game mechanic that can help the investigative process and it would still require police to be in the right place at the right time to actually interpret the evidence correctly, as there is a fair timeframe on the debris despawning.

Let’s consider you hear a crowbar being used in a parking lot, but when you arrive, you find two individuals with no crowbars on them, only debris by a car. What are you supposed to do? Under the current system, you can't charge either person because there’s no solid evidence linking them to the crime, despite it being clear that a crime was attempted. Meaning you literally can't do your job as a police officer because you lack investigative tools to do so. Isn't that the definition of being underpowered?

As you mentioned, officers can use "/me" for roleplay, but this same argument could have been made against the introduction of the most recent injury system update or the gun descriptions that show if a weapon has been fired. Yet, both of these additions are widely regarded as improvements that significantly enhance the ability of officers to investigate and gather evidence.

I disagree that PD is underpowered as I have already demonstrated a clear approach to them being able to investigate, the only barrier to entry is gaining the experience to learn this method. Just like how prior people can check if a gun is warm via /me but now there is a game-mechanic to represent. Though regardless, a new player will never automatically KNOW they can press R with their fist to check heat level unless they gain investigative skills through learning how to investigate from his/her colleagues.

I think the main point that I disagree with is that your argument is in the name of allowing investigation regardless of the presence of the suspect to investigate so warrants can be placed out which I find excessive and unenjoyable for criminals as well as lazy rp in terms of investigation.

Imagine this suggestion is added? Now officers don't have any process to go through. Medics get them an ID and in a snap someone is warranted over a failed crowbar despite them neither being spotted nor apprehended.

Forced interactions are unique to checking door locks, When a suspect is apprehended for lockpicking a car they're forced to drop their crowbar with a "/me takes the crowbar out of his pocket,"

Now in terms of commitment and counter-play. I would say this /me process is a form of counter-play but a mechanic that represents it would be nice and I support that.

A middle ground is good, but the middle ground IS the process of checking scratches on hands and the inability to do so when a suspect to investigate is absent is the counter-play. This balance is perfect and a mechanic to represent that would be yet again an improvement and what I like to believe is a compromise between our opinions. However again the suggestion above isn't that. It's a request for an extreme approach.

 

[peeps]