Police Suggestion Relax the Constraints of CQB Sniping for V6

[teby]

Suggestion Title: Relax the Constraints of CQB Sniping for V6
Suggestion Description: CQB is defined as such in the TFU handbook: ‘Close Quater Battle’ (CQB) refers to combat where the aggressor and officer are within close vicinity of each other. Close vicinity is a relatively short distance, or when both the aggressor and the TFO are within the confines of the same building.

The last part of the definition ("within the confines of the same building") makes many scenarios impossible, such as sniping from 1 corridor to another inside Lakeview, or from the long hallway in Tidals. Treating a small bedroom the same as a large building doesn't make sense to me. According to this definition, you're not allowed to hold the Stalburg tunnels with a sniper despite being the perfect place to use a sniper.

I believe TFOs should be allowed to use a sniper given the distance between them and the aggressor is large enough. That's not to say TFOs should clear corners or make entry with snipers, but if they have a sniper on their back and the circumstance permits it, they should be allowed to use it within a large building.

Why should this be added?:
- Makes more sense to accommodate CQB for v6, it is a larger map and contains larger apartment complexes than v5 did.

What negatives could this have?:
- More room for error
- It might encourage TFOs to use snipers when it's unnecessary

What problem would this suggestion solve?: Outdated policy that stood true for v5 but not v6.

 

[Tilin]

@Megasaw

 

[Clarky]

Yes the policy restriction for snipers are retarded to begin with anyways imo, should be able to use them just like a crim would, it’s not like you’ve got many heavy snipers to utilise when it’s restricted to one and having to worry about some policy that restricts you instead of actually being more (or less) efficient isn’t fun to begin with

 

[Baba]

I would suggest it lessens, but imagine that a cop gets a FREE 50k gun, additional armor etc while crim has to buy and use without any additional armor etc

 

[tylerye]

Yes the policy restriction for snipers are retarded to begin with anyways imo, should be able to use them just like a crim would, it’s not like you’ve got many heavy snipers to utilise when it’s restricted to one and having to worry about some policy that restricts you instead of actually being more (or less) efficient isn’t fun to begin with

I think the policy is less about fun and more about fairness. Although you do have some crims using heavy snipers, the majority are predominantly using rifles so having tfos run around with their own heavy sniper close range whilst also completely armoured and having immense utility for free would be entirely unbalanced.

In regards to the whole suggestion, I feel that although there are some larger buildings that this could be utilized within there is also a large amount of buildings where it should still be considered close range. The addition of the part that stated about indoor scenarios was, in my opinion, primary for ease when determining whether someone had violated the policy during a situation or not and, from what I remember, vastly decreased the amount of situations regarding the policy that we were encountering as it now included that concrete foundation that had no wiggle room.

I think a way that this could be improved is to pretty much keep it the way it is, but allow its usage in some buildings. These buildings could be stated around the policy itself.

 

[teby]

I think a way that this could be improved is to pretty much keep it the way it is, but allow its usage in some buildings. These buildings could be stated around the policy itself.

Agreed. I wouldn't want to see TFOs with snipers in small areas such as Slums, Regals, Office, SG, etc.. But places like Farm, Foundry, or Tidals / Lakeview's corridors could be viable in my eyes.

It should simply not be as restrictive as it currently is.

 

[Tilin]

Yes the policy restriction for snipers are retarded to begin with anyways imo, should be able to use them just like a crim would, it’s not like you’ve got many heavy snipers to utilise when it’s restricted to one and having to worry about some policy that restricts you instead of actually being more (or less) efficient isn’t fun to begin with

They are restricted for 2 reasons:
- Gameplay balance
- But more importantly... So the sniper role isn't left without the L115A3 because some douche decided to rush in with the only weapon that there is a limited amount of.

If we were to allow if for all sorts of combat, then chances are the weapon would be unusable after 3 minutes into any situation.

 

[Jack P]

Yes the policy restriction for snipers are retarded to begin with anyways imo, should be able to use them just like a crim would, it’s not like you’ve got many heavy snipers to utilise when it’s restricted to one and having to worry about some policy that restricts you instead of actually being more (or less) efficient isn’t fun to begin with

+1 The restrictions are insane especially when you sometimes come up against people with 2 AS50's and a Barret(This is pretty rare but it DOES happen) and you just have to hope there's a distance or a proper area you can snipe back and hope they aint good with it. Not only that as you mentioned TFU don't really have a great weaponry, they DO have the Barret if there's I think it's Armed Deployment? Or Police state, but that's not very often and still only 1 sniper lol.

But there should still be restrictions, you shouldn't bumrush 2 people with pistols with a damn sniper that's just pathetic, it should be utilized in more seriously confirmed serious.

 

[Clarky]

They are restricted for 2 reasons:
- Gameplay balance
- But more importantly... So the sniper role isn't left without the L115A3 because some douche decided to rush in with the only weapon that there is a limited amount of.

If we were to allow if for all sorts of combat, then chances are the weapon would be unusable after 3 minutes into any situation.

There is no gameplay balance to be concerned of tbh, the police should always win in a rhetorical sense and wouldn't mildly change any sort of outcome given the high risk high reward behind it. If a TFO performs poorly by the hypothetical example you brought up by rushing in with a sniper then I would see this differently, something that could be dealt with internally. I think rather allowing more aggressive usages of the sniper by obviously not only what OP has brought up but in such scenarios where there is a zerg online and your limited options after a near full PD wipe, it can become quite strained and thus should allow the sniper to be used in scenarios where we typically would not allow it at the moment. Perhaps this could be a thing TFTO's can authorize sort of deal, something would obviously have to exist in text form as it gets deeper than the aforementioned latter.

 

[Nakos]

TFO performs poorly by the hypothetical example you brought up by rushing in with a sniper then I would see this differently, something that could be dealt with internally

It would be hard to sanction a TFO for playing stupid / rushing in if it doesn't directly violate a policy or clearly fall under Negligent performance of duties, I don't think it's realistic to try and mandate playstyles or tactics beyond grading applicants on them in the practical.

 

[HarryEB]

I would suggest it lessens, but imagine that a cop gets a FREE 50k gun, additional armor etc while crim has to buy and use without any additional armor etc

But crims get their mates will full auto guns and no policy to follow, also ALOT of players on this server are sitting on over 1 mil. Cops are restricted by policy and also most cops on the server will be pistol cops

 

[tylerye]

+1 The restrictions are insane especially when you sometimes come up against people with 2 AS50's and a Barret(This is pretty rare but it DOES happen) and you just have to hope there's a distance or a proper area you can snipe back and hope they aint good with it. Not only that as you mentioned TFU don't really have a great weaponry, they DO have the Barret if there's I think it's Armed Deployment? Or Police state, but that's not very often and still only 1 sniper lol.

But there should still be restrictions, you shouldn't bumrush 2 people with pistols with a damn sniper that's just pathetic, it should be utilized in more seriously confirmed serious.

Unless I am misunderstanding what youre saying, I don't feel there is a way we can make it so each situation is considered that dynamically where it would depend on the weaponry that the crims are using. One of the baselines for being a TFO is that you have greater situational awareness and are able to play around changing circumstances. The existence of this policy makes it so that if you are wanting to play the sniper role, you can, but if you want to get more aggressive and play closer range, you can with the rifles, shotguns and submachine guns. The ACOG sights allow for mid-close range encounters which I feel I see underused by TFOs, although this is just something I have experienced personally. That is also one of the main reasons to brute does what it does, adding the functionality of a heavily armoured portable armoury allows you to change your loadout on the fly depending on what your plan is.

When it comes to the arsenal that TFU have available to them. They have a good range of weaponry that is realistic and fair. In terms of snipers which is what this threads about, you have the choice of the L115 which will 1 tap anyone from a chest / headshot and the M24 which, although underwhelming, has the silencer available to equip which allows for you to play situations smarter and with greater variety. Of course you have the M82 aswell occasionally as you said.

But crims get their mates will full auto guns and no policy to follow, also ALOT of players on this server are sitting on over 1 mil. Cops are restricted by policy and also most cops on the server will be pistol cops

Crims do get their mates, but there is hardly situations where you see a group of raiders on full pop get even close to the amount of numbers the PD can have on full pop. Even with these cops being pistol cops, the fact you are seeing a greater amount of raids being won by crims compared to cops is mainly due to the way that the majority of cops (mainly pistol cops) handle these situations. The existence of RTFO now also allows for more cops to have access to greater weaponry during firearms situations.

 

[Inchs]

I agree there are some buildings in which you should be allowed to use them, but overall I think the policy is good to stop someone using up the L1 slot just to run into a building and get rushed after a single shot, maybe just a tweaking of the policy instead

 

[Mushroom]

As a completely crim player who doesnt play PD, and doesnt understand the appeal this would be my opinion

Body Armour and 1 shot sniper rifle for free at close range, maybe I am crazy but I am inclined to not want this. Policy seems fine and fair to me I have often got punished by snipers from long range and it hasnt felt unfair because I put myself in the position, and I just learn next time to be aware of angles a great example being getting sniped from the road up to subs while raiding office

Crims needs to invest Money into getting the snipers, and then when they have them they dont have body armor so its a massive risk to potential reward (I never think its worth it hence why you never see me with snipers) for cops to basically have 0 risk because its free + armor buff I am completely against that, I understand what your saying about long hallways like Tidals, but it wont stop there itll just devolve into an argument and unecassary IAs at the end of the day the average crim player will lose out on whatever gun they had plus all drugs they wouldve taken out because they are fighting Master Chief with a 1 shot gun in tidals hallway

 

[teby]

Body Armour and 1 shot sniper rifle for free at close range

This contradicts my suggestion and what is being discussed

I believe TFOs should be allowed to use a sniper given the distance between them and the aggressor is large enough. That's not to say TFOs should clear corners or make entry with snipers, but if they have a sniper on their back and the circumstance permits it, they should be allowed to use it within a large building.

TLDR above

but it wont stop there itll just devolve into an argument and unecassary IAs at the end of the day

If a TFO puts themselves in a position where they're forced to engage with a sniper in CQB (short range), that's a clear policy violation. I don't think that would ever allowed.

 

[sza]

Praying for the day they just remove that entire policy omg, but +support!

 

[Mushroom]

teby said:
I believe TFOs should be allowed to use a sniper given the distance between them and the aggressor is large enough. That's not to say TFOs should clear corners or make entry with snipers, but if they have a sniper on their back and the circumstance permits it, they should be allowed to use it within a large building.

Even if you have good intentions, which I believe you do youve always been a good faith player, "large enough" or any form of vague measurement language will always result in bad faith players (there are alot of them) saying "it seemed large enough to me". I just dont think it needs to be changed unless we lived in a world where people would be reasonable and not abuse it, which we dont