Rules

[johnlick]

Hey so long story short I was killed for "countering" a raid. The thing is I had already died, and apparently since this guy didn't know that I died that makes it okay for him to come and shoot me in the back of the head in my next life.

Staff saying this is not rdm

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2963525877

I saw the guy who shot me at subs storage and if I used this same logic and killed him (after he died) I would be in the wrong. Why is it that when I break simple rules I get banned for days but when somebody else does it, they just didn't know. Why are the rules and punishments not consistent among every player ?

 

[Wescott]

I understand where you're coming from but when you die you are subject to 3.5 NLR, you can't use any information from your previous life in your new one so you seeing him and shooting him after he killed you would most definitely be classed as RDM. He had no way of knowing you had died so him taking retaliatory action against you is allowed by my understanding as long as it was compliant with rule 3.4.

I know it can be frustrating but he had no way of knowing you had died. A lot of us change clothing after high level crimes to avoid recognition.

 

[Goonsberg]

First off, if you don’t think a punishment was consistent you should make a dispute or staff complaint. Staff aren’t robots so not everything will be handled the same!

Would help if we had a video of the situation to give our opinion, however, why are you in the area of an active raid?

The rules are centred around real life. If you saw armed people breaking into a house, would you casually go near them? No you would fucking run. If you were the people breaking in it would be a fair assumption that someone coming up to you during an armed raid is a threat so you would probably kill them.

As I said, hard without a video but not only did they likely not break a rule but there is a high chance you broke 3.4 & 3.5

 

[johnlick]

First off, if you don’t think a punishment was consistent you should make a dispute or staff complaint. Staff aren’t robots so not everything will be handled the same!

Would help if we had a video of the situation to give our opinion, however, why are you in the area of an active raid?

The rules are centred around real life. If you saw armed people breaking into a house, would you casually go near them? No you would fucking run. If you were the people breaking in it would be a fair assumption that someone coming up to you during an armed raid is a threat so you would probably kill them.

As I said, hard without a video but not only did they likely not break a rule but there is a high chance you broke 3.4 & 3.5

The raid I "countered" was him mugging someone in a bazar shop that I accidentally walked into whilst holding my pistol. Not a single shot was fired from me. I didn't break any of the rules you mentioned.

 

[Goonsberg]

The raid I "countered" was him mugging someone in a bazar shop that I accidentally walked into whilst holding my pistol. Not a single shot was fired from me. I didn't break any of the rules you mentioned.

However, you walked into an active mug with a gun out.

Do you really think that guy is in the wrong for killing you?

He is mugging (bad crime), armed man he doesn’t know walks in, he shoots to protect himself.

That is all allowed and the correct action. I would be concerned if he didn’t kill you!

Sometimes it’s a bummer when you die but the staff are normally right when it comes to rule breaks. I would recommend reading through 3.3 & 3.4 as they are the important ones. It’s also useful to look at past ARs to see videos of situations and if they broke the rules to really understand them

 

[johnlick]

However, you walked into an active mug with a gun out.

Do you really think that guy is in the wrong for killing you?

He is mugging (bad crime), armed man he doesn’t know walks in, he shoots to protect himself.

That is all allowed and the correct action. I would be concerned if he didn’t kill you!

Sometimes it’s a bummer when you die but the staff are normally right when it comes to rule breaks. I would recommend reading through 3.3 & 3.4 as they are the important ones. It’s also useful to look at past ARs to see videos of situations and if they broke the rules to really understand them

That kill was justified, that's not what this post is about. My question is why is it not considered RDM for him to shoot me in a new life. I'm confused because by NLR logic my new character did nothing to him yet he is still allowed to shoot me

 

[Goonsberg]

That kill was justified, that's not what this post is about. My question is why is it not considered RDM for him to shoot me in a new life. I'm confused because by NLR logic my new character did nothing to him yet he is still allowed to shoot me

So the instance he killed you isn’t when you walked in with your gun out?

Like I said, a clip would make it so much easier for us to give opinion

 

[gaz duppy]

Hey so long story short I was killed for "countering" a raid. The thing is I had already died, and apparently since this guy didn't know that I died that makes it okay for him to come and shoot me in the back of the head in my next life.

Staff saying this is not rdm

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2963525877

I saw the guy who shot me at subs storage and if I used this same logic and killed him (after he died) I would be in the wrong. Why is it that when I break simple rules I get banned for days but when somebody else does it, they just didn't know. Why are the rules and punishments not consistent among every player ? if shot u the first time n killed u

if he killed u the first time knowing u was dead n then kills u the second time u got the put the matter in ur own hands

 

[Ellie]

This is pretty common because Its only so much you can invesigate, and make a report to ask if someone died so you could take revenge would take time and clog up the reports for staff.

If you want to take revenge on someone you can only use the IC information that you have. So if he didn't know you already died IC by seeing your body or was told about it, there is no way for him to know that you actually died.

 

[johnlick]

So the instance he killed you isn’t when you walked in with your gun out?

Like I said, a clip would make it so much easier for us to give opinion

here are the clips

the counter raid - after this video we were both revived and he was arrested as a result of him being snitched on by the victim. I died shortly after

his revenge

if you need anymore banks filled in lmk

 

[johnlick]

This is pretty common because Its only so much you can invesigate, and make a report to ask if someone died so you could take revenge would take time and clog up the reports for staff.

If you want to take revenge on someone you can only use the IC information that you have. So if he didn't know you already died IC by seeing your body or was told about it, there is no way for him to know that you actually died.

if this is true then there should be a rule in place to defend the person with the new life
Example) You may not seek revenge on a person for more than 10 minutes

because by this logic I can come back 8 hours later see him walking down the street and shoot him in the back

 

[Efan]

if this is true then there should be a rule in place to defend the person with the new life
Example) You may not seek revenge on a person for more than 10 minutes

because by this logic I can come back 8 hours later see him walking down the street and shoot him in the back

Was there 8 hours between this event?

 

[johnlick]

Was there 8 hours between this event?

20 minutes my point is if there is no set time limit or some other form of protection for the new life, then that is a flaw

 

[Goonsberg]

here are the clips

the counter raid - after this video we were both revived and he was arrested as a result of him being snitched on by the victim. I died shortly after

his revenge

if you need anymore banks filled in lmk

I understand your frustration after watching these clips.

Remember, I’m not an admin so my view is just a view!

1)Did he know you died (blackscreen)? You can check on the demo what he saw (if you need help with this let me know).

If he did, then make an AR with the additional evidence. If he didn’t, then it’s abit of a complicated one that comes down to the admins view.

2)Be careful with NLR.

Your NLR timer was still on when you were in Baz, how does he know you respawned when you are in the area within NLR?

I know it’s petty, just don’t get caught out!

3)If you think it was not a correct decision make an AR or staff complain.

Threads like this are not formal so will cause all sorts of debates, keeping it in the formal areas will actually get you an outcome. (Won’t always be the one you want).

4)Staff aren’t trying to be a pain.

I know you will be pissed when you don’t get action after making an F6 but staff aren’t doing it to spite you, just trying to make a decision based on what they can see!

 

[johnlick]

2)Be careful with NLR.

Your NLR timer was still on when you were in Baz, how does he know you respawned when you are in the area within NLR?

I know it’s petty, just don’t get caught out!

After the "counter raid" we were revived by medics, he went to jail, and I got into a different RP situation which lead to my death( At regals). The NLR timer you are seeing does not go with the first video.

so hopefully we have come to a mutual understanding that he has no way of knowing I died, thus there should be a rule in place to stop more situations like this.

If I rob a bank and die I am protected from police by NLR. The same protection should exist with citizens, I should be protected from my past life actions in my new life.


Also I do not think a report is necessary as I do not think anybody should get in trouble. But maybe this grey area can be fixed to avoid any future confusion in situations like this

 

[Goonsberg]

Feel free to make a rule suggestion https://perpheads.com/forums/rule-suggestions.39/

I personally don't agree as there is no way to know if someone has died in another situation, therefore impossible to follow. It's one of those rare pains in the ass!