Self defence against law enforcement

[Kempotent]

Is this a new law or a change to a current law: New law

What law do you wish to change/add: 3.13 If an unlawful raid has been taken place upon a property, and said property owners decide to defend their place as it is in within their rights to do so, the responsibility of injury/death taken from said property owner, and passed over to the commanding officer of the raid. (if proven unlawful)

Why should this change/addition be made: Because 90% of the time if police unlawfully raid someones property then the owners will defend/fight back for they know they are in the right, although they do know if they raid they will be arrested for illegal items on the premises (drugs) if they decide to fight back it is then not their fault this is happening its the commanding officers ordering them to be raided.

What is the aim of this change/addition: To stop unlawful raids and people getting prosecuted for something that they should not have been caught for, like the murder of an LEO because they decided to defend their property.

Additional Information: N/A

 

[joey]

Common misconception irl is that you can’t use illegally obtained evidence, most of the time it’s up to the court to use but yknow, PLPD is our court.

If you have nothing in your property and you kill police illegally breaching, you are in the right.

Even if they do illegally breach, without sufficient evidence, but you are conducting illegal activities in the property: You are in the wrong as well. Make an IA and get the Officer punished (OR STAFF STEP UP AND START BANNING THE NONCES) but it’s bs to say you shouldn’t be done for the drugs you have etc (I’m getting this vibe from how the law is written)

ngl this law would only serve more confusion and more “injustice” because if you shoot a police officer for trespassing, youve likely not exhausted all avenues of deescelation which are expected of you lawfully.

a better way to fix this is for staff to start banning and IA done post ban.

 

[Smeris]

I'd be all for this law but ShadowJoey made a valid point; the moment you shoot a cop all the barettas are aimlocked on your face and now you've replaced your invalid warrant for drugs for a valid one for murder.

You shoot the cops knocking on your door for the invalid raid, the others have no evidence of the drugs, but they remembered you slaughtering 5 officers. now you have a valid warrant for murder. Other cops might have no idea what the original warrant was about anyways.

I think @Kempotent 's suggestion would solve this better, this law might not be that nessesary if the cops are looking through your windows while standing on your subs 2 garden for example.

However, even if you're the biggest coke producer of paralake, that should never be prosecutable. THE 4TH IS MY LAWYER AND I'D LIKE TO INVOKE THE 5TH.

 

[proctologist]

no, this will just cause more problems.

you already have a self-defence law. it'll still apply regardless to whom raids your shit.

 

[Kempotent]

i don't see how this will cause problems? its self defense against LEO for an unlawful event....

 

[proctologist]

can you not read? you've already got a law for self-defence.

 

[Smeris]

@Scatman John As every government on this planet those rules do not apply to them. Kill a cop under self defense and you will always be arrested in PERP.

 

[Creepis]

Covered by 2.2 Necessity if I'm not mistaken, you can get away with it as long as you comply with any request from the police and make sure you actually surrender to show yourself as a non-active threat if you used force. Of course you should be a god at defending yourself or helping the police in their investigation, you will suceed most of the time if you actually know what to say instead of screaming out your lungs. I made use of it in civilian situations but can also be used against Police.

 

[proctologist]

that's a perp problem isn't it?

 

[Kempotent]

@Scatman John which is why this law will be enforced so they can't do it, thats the point of this thread to improve perp are you brain dead??

 

[proctologist]

@Kempotent how the fuck is that going to change anything

 

[Jimmy]

Except it's not self defence, it's just straight up murdering cops. What a stupid suggestion for a law.

 

[Bnjemann]

Ok, let me explain something to you real quick.

If it’s a raid, then police aren’t going to be an actual threat to your life typically on the grounds that you are also not a threat to theirs.

And beyond that, even if you do kill the cops who are breaking the law, you’d have to either surrender to the responding officers or shoot at them in “self defence” since they‘re launching an assault on your building.

Even if you kill the officers who were breaking the law, the rest of the PD will be responding to the officer life alerts, meaning that they’ll be performing a legal raid.

If you’re shooting cops on your property you’re usually defending something illegal from them, such as drugs or a warranted suspect. Otherwise, you’re just shooting cops to be dragged onto a roof and punished by a staff member.

 

[joey]

Although a lot of you are saying there are other laws protecting such actions, it is true that this is a problem within the police and IA doesn't have the tools to immediately stop such things, it's just not in their power: we do need to accept the validity of the suggestion, even if we don't agree with how it tackles the issues. I do however think this would be worth highlighting to staff and maybe even a community poll on whether staff should begin regularly enforcing - not to say that they never do - rule 4.1 for minor law breakages etc, allowing IA to give "IC" punishments to police (I understand IA is not completely IC)