Shooting cops on hard difficulty chop shop?

MalekIsWeird

MalekIsWeird

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TL: DR:
Asset forfeiture is a punishment as classified under law. If punished for a major punishment the 3.4 guide allows to shoot pd, losing 34k on chop shop hard is a major punishment which is naturally allowed by the 3.4 guide. Lastly, in the 3.4 rule theft is a serious crime as written.

This post is confirming if chop shop hard allows shooting pd

Hello

recently with the new chop shop expansion, chop shop has become no different than a heist. Doing it on hard pays out like a bank robbery and poses similar difficulty.

i want to raise this point because I’ve found what I believe is a valid point to be made but I just want to discuss it and more importantly have the opinion of staff to give a verdict.

Let me start by defining the terms that follow:

Firstly, Asset Forfeiture is an official power that police have. It’s used to punish people as it’s listed for example under 12.12 next to years and fine. Knowing this, and knowing chop shop risks 34,000$ on Hard. It only makes sense that the punishment is NOT minor if the criminal is doing it on hard.

asset forfeiture is a punishment as seen here:
IMG_6925.jpeg
IMG_6924.jpeg

Secondly, Theft is a well known word without need for defintion, however a mention worthy piece of evidence is the following piece in 3.4 that proves Theft is a serious crime that is even compared to murder despite its inherent non violent nature:
IMG_6922.jpeg

Third point is that minor punishments themselves are disallowed to be reasons for criminals to initiate shootouts, we all know that. Nevertheless; if the punishment is major, like the risk of major monetary loss on the basis of Asset forfeiture, then the imminent punishment is justifying initiating a shootout as explained in the 3.4 guide:
IMG_6923.jpeg

however reckless driving is a traffic offense, and as stated “not justifiable” as a reason due to its nature. But, Theft isn’t and instead is a Property and Possessions crime so it’s free from that restriction yet still has Asset forfeiture under it as seen here:
IMG_6926.jpeg

Conclusively, I just did some digging and came to this conclusion. Personally I feel that shooting now is fair as no longer is chop shop a quick easy cash grab, it’s a whole heist process and to make it more enjoyable is to give this sort of choice to Peaceful or Violent approaches to happen.
Thanks for your time.
 
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Yes/No, I see the point you're bringing up but if anything changing the wording of rule 3.4 from
"Committing a violent or serious crime, such as murder, theft, arson, etc. whilst knowing that police are in direct eyeshot of the scene you wish to commit the crime at."
To change it to something like
"Committing any criminal act, such as but not limited to murder, theft, arson, whilst knowing that a government employee is in direct eyeshot of the scene you wish to commit the crime at."
 
I’m going to reply something engaging, unlike those other scallywags!

I actually partly agree with you on this Malek in terms of it makes sense to justify that the value of the item you are stealing is sometimes greater than what you would get in a raid etc.


However, I also feel that the issue with allowing this is it makes the rules more complicated.

We already get enough moans that specific examples of 2.5 & 3.4 aren’t listed and this just adds to it. At the moment it should be pretty simple to understand when you can shoot cops.

If this change was accepted, it opens the door to much much more challenge around when you can shoot cops.
 
We recommend not shooting police over a chop shop mission for various reasons:

-The police might have trouble identifying the difficulty of the chop shop
-The chop shop vehicle itself is of no particular value as it doesn't belong to a player
-You only receive your assets at the absolute tail-end of the mission, so you have no money until that point, so protecting the assets you don't actually have is pointless
-The only assets you forfeit are usually 1 crowbar with a value of just over $1000
-The crimes you commit are only Theft/Reckless driving which are not usually causes for firefight. Escalating that by running over pedestrians, for example, is optional
-You are already a danger to other people whose items or property can be damaged from the chop shop

Ultimately there's no reason to cause a firefight over a chop-shop mission.
 
I carefully thought about what you said and I would like to comment on each point.

rogue said:
We recommend not shooting police over a chop shop mission for various reasons:

-The police might have trouble identifying the difficulty of the chop shop
Click to expand...
Chop missions are ranked as we know as Easy, Medium and Hard. Easy vehicles are usually D class cars that are chevrolet C80s, Mini coopers and such. Nobody ever does Medium so that leaves a HUGE gap in performance to easily deduce that the vehicle pursued is a hard difficulty when its a Mclaren P1 or a Audi R8, etc...
rogue said:
-The chop shop vehicle itself is of no particular value as it doesn't belong to a player
-You only receive your assets at the absolute tail-end of the mission, so you have no money until that point, so protecting the assets you don't actually have is pointless
-The only assets you forfeit are usually 1 crowbar with a value of just over $1000
Click to expand...
I'd request that you clarify these points above?

Players stealing a hard difficulty car HAVE a high value vehicle worth millions, Compare that to Bank robbing where players are equally stealing millions in cash but they don't actually keep the item they possess in the process of thieving. Furthermore, In both cases, Players only get paid at the tail end of the mission but that does not deduct or subtract the value of the items being stolen in the game world or in roleplay.

As for The punishment, I believe that it isn't just 1 crowbar, it's the Asset forfeiture of a multi-million dollar hyper car. This is partly due to the clear description for Asset Forfeiture being listed under the crime of Theft and for Asset Forfeiture itself being explained as a Punishment as per Law 3.10 just the same as Years or Fine on a sentencing.
rogue said:
-The crimes you commit are only Theft/Reckless driving which are not usually causes for firefight. Escalating that by running over pedestrians, for example, is optional
-You are already a danger to other people whose items or property can be damaged from the chop shop
Click to expand...
I agree with the latter statement where you say the criminal is a danger.

Doing a chop shop on easy or even medium (when that rarely happens) is nothing like doing it on Hard where the criminal is recklessly evading in a multi-million dollar hyper car at 100 MPH+ risking mass collisions and loss of life at every turn despite never having ran over someone thus far.

I appreciate every response to this post thus far and I am curious to hear your thoughts on my response to your points.
 
Every single time I have had a gun pulled on me as a cop when responding to a chop mission, it was after the car was already stopped, spiked or disabled/disappeared. This is, of course, to say that if you're in a position during a pursuit where you could pull a gun on a cop, you've probably already failed the pursuit, so you won't be getting the money anyway.

Beyond that, we don't allow players to KOS Police for catching them illegally transporting expensive weapons either, even when these weapons are more expensive than 34k. It is also worth mentioning that it would just break the gamemode and make the server a lot less fun if every chop shop mission was another reason to have a gunfight with the Police
 
Thanks for your input, I will respond to each point. I hope my reply can provide a new perspective and or maybe help elaborate on the things I stated above.

Collier said:
you've probably already failed the pursuit, so you won't be getting the money anyway.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say so necessarily.

I have had multiple cases where officers left the impound in the hands of Roadcrew and I managed to find it before the vehicle was impounded. This naturally led to me forcing that roadcrew to repair the car and then take the car to drop it off.

Alternatively, I can easily imagine myself also inviting a few friends to set up an ambush in the tree-linemaybe down Cornfield Road to pull through if things get sticky with the police as a climax to a hot pursuit where I feel as if I am on my last leg.

Collier said:
Beyond that, we don't allow players to KOS Police for catching them illegally transporting expensive weapons either,
Click to expand...

I want to ask you to clarify this point if you could please?

Also, I would like to restate my logic in my points in the original post while providing an example to hopefully help clarify.

Knowing that Asset forfeiture is just as much of a punishment under law as any length or sum of year and fine, If we used the example of an AS-50 (A loss of 40,000$ at the least not including ammo and scopes) being illegally transported while referring to the evidence above, I would say its reasonable to deduce that having a AS-50 seized via Asset Forfeiture is not a minor loss but rather a major loss and major losses are reasons to initiate shootouts over.

1725040732477.png

This feels especially correct when players can actively commit murder and shoot a criminal dead if they attempt to even attempt to steal their vehicle which mechanically only risks the loss of around 10-30k at most from Veikkos.

This boils down to how the rules, guides and examples are written. I totally understand where you're coming from however with the recent big change to chop shop making it a heist I feel inclined to bring this case up as it has become much more than just a mission but instead its become a heist.
 
Look man I am going to be real I really can't be bothered arguing with every single person who expects us to justify everything, you've had a Community Manager and the Head Admin explain to you why we don't allow this and yet we're still going round and round.

MalekIsWeird said:
I have had multiple cases where officers left the impound in the hands of Roadcrew and I managed to find it before the vehicle was impounded. This naturally led to me forcing that roadcrew to repair the car and then take the car to drop it off.
Click to expand...
Cops can now impound chop cars with or without RC, I used to expressly tell them to impound it and not let anyone have it if I didn't personally charge the thief myself.

MalekIsWeird said:
Alternatively, I can easily imagine myself also inviting a few friends to set up an ambush in the tree-linemaybe down Cornfield Road to pull through if things get sticky with the police as a climax to a hot pursuit where I feel as if I am on my last leg.
Click to expand...
Yeah but this fucking sucks for the cops who are unfortunate enough to die every single time someone does a chop mission

MalekIsWeird said:
I want to ask you to clarify this point if you could please?
Click to expand...
Sure, we don't allow it

MalekIsWeird said:
Knowing that Asset forfeiture is just as much of a punishment under law as any length or sum of year and fine, If we used the example of an AS-50 (A loss of 40,000$ at the least not including ammo and scopes) being illegally transported while referring to the evidence above, I would say its reasonable to deduce that having a AS-50 seized via Asset Forfeiture is not a minor loss but rather a major loss and major losses are reasons to initiate shootouts over.
Click to expand...
it's not, just don't illegally transport if you are afraid of losing your AS50, causing a shootout puts you at even more risk of losing it, so it is even dumber to do that

MalekIsWeird said:
This feels especially correct when players can actively commit murder and shoot a criminal dead if they attempt to even attempt to steal their vehicle which mechanically only risks the loss of around 10-30k at most from Veikkos.
Click to expand...
It's the principle and inconvenience, not the monetary loss

MalekIsWeird said:
This boils down to how the rules, guides and examples are written. I totally understand where you're coming from however with the recent big change to chop shop making it a heist I feel inclined to bring this case up as it has become much more than just a mission but instead its become a heist.
Click to expand...
They're written fine
 
Collier said:
Look man I am going to be real I really can't be bothered arguing with every single person who expects us to justify everything, you've had a Community Manager and the Head Admin explain to you why we don't allow this and yet we're still going round and round.


Cops can now impound chop cars with or without RC, I used to expressly tell them to impound it and not let anyone have it if I didn't personally charge the thief myself.


Yeah but this fucking sucks for the cops who are unfortunate enough to die every single time someone does a chop mission


Sure, we don't allow it


it's not, just don't illegally transport if you are afraid of losing your AS50, causing a shootout puts you at even more risk of losing it, so it is even dumber to do that


It's the principle and inconvenience, not the monetary loss


They're written fine
Click to expand...
So can we shot cops?
 
Chop shop should not be another reason to turn an RP into a shootout, we have a various other amount of criminal activities that encourage shootouts.
 
Auston said:
Chop shop should not be another reason to turn an RP into a shootout, we have a various other amount of criminal activities that encourage shootouts.
Click to expand...
Precisely. We don't need more shooty shooty stuff. Otherwise the E-sporters will turn the chop shop mission into just shoot cops and free money
 
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