[Suggestion] 2.5 Crowbar wallbanging rule change

[Mxdium]

What rule do you wish to Edit/Add: 2.5 Excessive Negativity

Your version of the rule: I didn't really know where this would fit so imma just do this. Make it a new rule if it doesn't fit here in your opinion.

2.5 Excessive Negativity​

Players may not excessively impact the experience of others in a negative manner, unless the actions are a proportionate escalation of negative actions that have been performed against the original player.

When participating in raids, players carrying visible weaponry inside of the property being raided are considered to be significant enough threats to be killed justifiably without prior verbal commands or interaction.

For example, it is not acceptable to:

• Intentionally mug and target new players.
• Destroy valuable items due to basic distaste such as product prices.
• Killing a player over verbal insults, minor or accidental actions.
• Killing a player after mugging them because they’ve seen your identity.
• Intentionally steal a car to wreck it without any valid reason.

In addition to this, players are not allowed to shoot crowbarring or bobby pinning raiders through the door unless the raiders have already shot through the door, windows or walls.

Why do you believe this rule should be Added/Edited: Right now it is impossible to raid without a bomb and it should not be like this. Certain players that want to raid can't afford both a rifle and a bomb and this just makes raiding a one sided thing. It is only the 'rich' players raiding or the friends of 'rich' players. I never see small organisations or newer players raid due to the simple fact they can't afford it.

Raiding is supposed to be a fun activity between the defenders and raiders but it usually ends in chaos and salt. I truly do believe this will help a tiny bit in making raiding fun and fair again. Perhaps not allowing any wallbanging is a bit too much, maybe make it that in the first 3 tries wallbanging is not allowed but this will be very hard to enforce without video evidence. (Maybe add logs that say 'attempted to crowbar'?)

 

[Clarky]

I’ve managed to get in plenty of times while being wall banged (slums/projex), you should probably work on your positioning to avoid being hit but that’s just me

 

[Mxdium]

I’ve managed to get in plenty of times while being wall banged (slums/projex), you should probably work on your positioning to avoid being hit but that’s just me

Yeah I've gotten in plenty of times aswell but I've also not gotten in plenty of times, probably more than I got in.

 

[Askasta]

"HEY HEY HEY, YOU NOT ALLOWED TO SHOOT ME EVEN WHEN IM TRYING TO INVADE YOUR PROPERTY, THATS BECAUSE I DIDNT START TO SHOOT SO YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SHOOT".

From what i know the game aims for realism. Why the hell you wouldn't be allowed to shoot a raider when he starts to crowbar/bobby pin. Crowbar is even better because you can move away so its almost impossible to get wallbanged.

 

[Lucius Husky]

I dont agree, raiding should be hard. You are making an attempt of taking someones items and they should be perfectly allowed to defend it and have a small advantage since they are defending. It is actually quite easy sometimes to bobby pin without the residents knowing if you approach silently.

So imo raiding shouldn't be too easy, and defending belongings should bring an advantage.

 

[codabro]

I agree! We should let people break into our homes without retaliating.

 

[Mxdium]

I dont agree, raiding should be hard. You are making an attempt of taking someones items and they should be perfectly allowed to defend it and have a small advantage since they are defending. It is actually quite easy sometimes to bobby pin without the residents knowing if you approach silently.

So imo raiding shouldn't be too easy, and defending belongings should bring an advantage.

But that isn't the point.

The only thing getting used right now are bombs, they blow up your entire defence and make navigating your base super hard. At this point the raiders have the advantage because you can't move without your POV shaking around or your gun going out of ADS

 

[Clarky]

Yeah I've gotten in plenty of times aswell but I've also not gotten in plenty of times, probably more than I got in.

Why don’t you try to wall bang them back with a friend as they attempt to break in? You’re forgetting that you can counter it and there isn’t much too much of an angle to shoot anywhere else so it’s easy to know where the occupant be if that is the case.

 

[Lucius Husky]

But that isn't the point.

The only thing getting used right now are bombs, they blow up your entire defence and make navigating your base super hard. At this point the raiders have the advantage because you can't move without your POV shaking around or your gun going out of ADS

That is the point, and I did read your thread. Me not stating anything about bombs doesnt mean I dont stand by my point.

 

[thom_e]

they can't hear you crowbar if you scream loud enough, just put a bit more heart into it

 

[Clarky]

they can't hear you crowbar if you scream loud enough, just put a bit more heart into it

Thom is now playing Soundpad

 

[Kempotent]

this is why you can walk away from the door whilst crowbarring

 

[Auris]

ok lets say you are in america you have a rifle or what ever a gun that can shoot through the wall and some dude is slamming your door with a crowbar you gunna light that fucker up like a christmas tree
this would make it way balanced against the defends as you cant do shit until they already lockpick your door then through a fucking gernade through

 

[Auris]

this is why you can walk away from the door whilst crowbarring

all this is gunna result in is people lock picking throwing in a gernade and there is nothing the defender can do until the door is open
this suggestion seems to be more of a '' hey we wanna be able to raid you more '' rule also how do you cancel using a crowbar ??

 

[.....]

As much as I see where you are coming from I will heavily disagree with this suggestion.

When raiding one should have a plan if shit hits the fan. For example nowadays orgs that use crowbars to raid reverse wallbang while their org member is crowbarring to ensure that the defenders dont wallbang them. A positive of the crowbar is that one can move while doing it which is another good way to counter wall-banging. Which is why it is better to raid with a group of people instead of alone.

In addition to this bombs are there for a reason, they are perfect for big bases or when raiding solo as they demolish the defence to some extent and if something like this gets added you may as well completely remove bombs as nobody will use them.

 

[Acerius]

But that isn't the point.

The only thing getting used right now are bombs, they blow up your entire defence and make navigating your base super hard. At this point the raiders have the advantage because you can't move without your POV shaking around or your gun going out of ADS

Bombs will continue to be used regardless of whether this change is implemented or not for the exact reasons you pointed out. The intentions of raiders using bombs differs greatly from those using bobby pins or crowbars. Those using bombs want to disrupt the defenders as much as possible, with the greater risks of attracting police and others to the area and the financial constraint. Those using bobby pins are aiming for as silent of an entry as possible, and crowbars are for manoeuvrability/flexibility and efficiency.

Raiding is supposed to be a fun activity between the defenders and raiders but it usually ends in chaos and salt. I truly do believe this will help a tiny bit in making raiding fun and fair again.

I don't see how reducing the options of defenders even more are going to make it more fun and fair, and I think you would be hard pushed to find many defenders who enjoy getting raided, regardless of the means.

It is only the 'rich' players raiding or the friends of 'rich' players. I never see small organisations or newer players raid due to the simple fact they can't afford it.

There are probably a greater number of reasons as to why small organisations or newer players don't want to raid. It could also be to do with confidence and experience; raiding is difficult and takes great skill and practice to get good at. They may also have other priorities which is better achieved by simply growing or getting a job.

Right now it is impossible to raid without a bomb and it should not be like this. Certain players that want to raid can't afford both a rifle and a bomb and this just makes raiding a one sided thing.

I would argue you need neither a bomb nor a rifle. People should spend more time scouting out properties and areas, seeing which property most fits their current setup for raiding. Yes, it would be near impossible to raid Glass Co, Parker, or Office with a HK pistol and a bobbypin but that doesn't mean they can't raid smaller properties such as the small Suburbs houses, Hicktown trailers, or any of the apartment blocks.

I understand the sentiment behind the suggestion but I don't believe that this is the most effective way of addressing the current issues of raiding. Kudos to you for starting a discussion about it, though.

 

[Mxdium]

This is obviously something the community doesn't want so I'll close it here and return to the drawing board. I will find a way that makes everyone happy.

Thanks for the constructive reply @Acerius , we need more people to reply like you just did.