[Suggestion] Change to rule 5.3 Raiding

[Moon]

Description of the idea: Let civilians that died in a raid be able flank again. after a certain time that has passed.

Why should this be added? (pros): [description/list of good aspects]

Shootouts will end way faster with civilians being able to flank again that's what the rule was meant to do in the first place. Just put a timer so after a certain time civilians that have died in a shootout be able to flank.

What negatives could this have? (cons): [list of all bad aspects]

I really don't see any cons at the moment it's better than shootouts lasting an hour I prefer normal cops having AS50's and at least be able to flank again.


*Other additions: It's pretty obvious that new rule didn't reduce the shootouts timer like it was meant to do so. infact shootouts take way longer now since cops play hide and seek and just camp since they know civilians can't return to the same shootout. while you're unable to push out since there's an AWP and another 6cops holding one doorway. they'll just wait for the next TFU wave to respawn and come back over and over again to the same shootout for the fourth time if they feel it's needed which has been the case most of the times. I really doubt how can a person find it fun dying in the same shootout over 3 to 4 times before one shootout is over as of now It's ridiculous.

//PHONE EXPECT EDIT

 

[blackdown]

The intention of not letting civs return to raids is to make raids more punishing to larger organizations trying to raid smaller bases. I feel that raids should be harder for the attacking party and should rely on strategy than sheer numbers and shooting skill. This is just my personal thoughts and doesn’t reflect the opinion of the entire administration team

 

[Kempotent]

Right now the only big org raids are pretty much just loli's and O'neils vs Olsen, the raids would last literally forever if people could come back and flank, just like they used too be. Not only org raids but it is unfair that players can come and attack after they have died as it just puts more and more pressure on the defending side.

 

[Kelson]

+ Support
or atleast make the rule apply to cops aswell

 

[Double J]

or atleast make the rule apply to cops aswell

This makes 0 sense. Would we really have a police force with about 8 people for a whole city? Having the extra danger of knowing cops will come back means you will need to push out at some point instead of sitting inside for ages, allowing more police backup to arrive.

 

[Kelson]

This makes 0 sense. Would we really have a police force with about 8 people for a whole city? Having the extra danger of knowing cops will come back means you will need to push out at some point instead of sitting inside for ages, allowing more police backup to arrive.

no theres like 10+ cops on most of the time lol, also, it's almost impossible to push out of slums / projex without dying because of how shit this map is

 

[LinkerNippel]

Cant go with you in this occasion. I am main Cop and i must say, in a scenario of a shootout, getting flanked over and over again makes it hard to actually win a Police Shootout.
Also about realism, cops get almost unlimited backup on the way in most of the time. The Police force is underpowered anyways. The rule kind of forces the criminals to push out and fight for their escape. I think thats a super nice thing. The 10 Minutes a cop is not allowed to turn back to the scene is more than enough to eliminate the rest of the police force and escape afterwards. Crims had a easy life.
I could agree with a lowered timescale, but i cannot agree to put this rule back to the old one

 

[LinkerNippel]

Cant go with you in this occasion. I am main Cop and i must say, in a scenario of a shootout, getting flanked over and over again makes it hard to actually win a Police Shootout.
Also about realism, cops get almost unlimited backup on the way in most of the time. The Police force is underpowered anyways. The rule kind of forces the criminals to push out and fight for their escape. I think thats a super nice thing. The 10 Minutes a cop is not allowed to turn back to the scene is more than enough to eliminate the rest of the police force and escape afterwards. Crims had a easy life.
I could agree with a lowered timescale, but i cannot agree to put this rule back to the old one

Maybe use the already dead criminal comrades for another shootout somewhere else in the city so a few of them are bound to that one

 

[Moon]

This makes 0 sense. Would we really have a police force with about 8 people for a whole city? Having the extra danger of knowing cops will come back means you will need to push out at some point instead of sitting inside for ages, allowing more police backup to arrive.

I gotta say this really makes no sense whatsoever try to play crim for once. why would someone push out one doorway when an AWP is holding it and 6cops I'm pretty sure that's violation of rule 3.6
"you will need to push out at some point"
No thanks I'll sit inside my base for 5hours and kill the same cop 10times if I have to. The only reason shootout takes an hour is because we peek I wonder how long they'll last if we play like the cops do.

 

[Kelson]

This makes 0 sense. Would we really have a police force with about 8 people for a whole city? Having the extra danger of knowing cops will come back means you will need to push out at some point instead of sitting inside for ages, allowing more police backup to arrive.

You can't really even know how it is like when you never play crim

 

[Butterman561]

Seems like this rule change was made in the favor of the PLPD seeing as they can return to the same raid, I'd like the rule to balanced around both crims and cops, not heavily favor one side.

 

[Kelson]

Seems like this rule change was made in the favor of the PLPD seeing as they can return to the same raid, I'd like the rule to balanced around both crims and cops, not heavily favor one side.

exactly, it should atleast apply to the cops aswell, so they can't just wait out their NLR and come back to the shootout again

 

[Moon]

Seems like this rule change was made in the favor of the PLPD seeing as they can return to the same raid, I'd like the rule to balanced around both crims and cops, not heavily favor one side.

Exactly I believe giving like a 15min timer for flankers is punishing enough with the current cops and how their playstyle like it's EFT extract camping quite literally they don't push a hour for only one guy left. It's clearly not balanced right now

 

[Moon]

The intention of not letting civs return to raids is to make raids more punishing to larger organizations trying to raid smaller bases. I feel that raids should be harder for the attacking party and should rely on strategy than sheer numbers and shooting skill. This is just my personal thoughts and doesn’t reflect the opinion of the entire administration team

Yeah but I thought the whole intention of the rule was to reduce the shootouts timer?
Sure make the shootouts harder nobody minds that at least not myself maybe newer players do mind. but anyway with the current rule as of it is it really feels slacky not a solution at all.
PD is the only thing that keeps getting Buffed every update while Civilians get nerfed being unable to flank is a huge handicap a timer should suffice the current cops don't push at all which is why the new rule isn't effective. //Phone

 

[Double J]

You can't really even know how it is like when you never play crim

My opinion has nothing to do with me not playing criminal.

A compromise we could say is 1/2 the time for raiders to come back, perhaps after 30 mins or so?

 

[Moon]

My opinion has nothing to do with me not playing criminal.

A compromise we could say is 1/2 the time for raiders to come back, perhaps after 30 mins or so?

30mins would work only if the current cops will play the same as they do but as long there's a timer cops will actually make at some point a point for escape for the Crim's as they will be aware of flankers their plans will crumble they'll have to push more aggressively etc.

 

[Kelson]

My opinion has nothing to do with me not playing criminal.

A compromise we could say is 1/2 the time for raiders to come back, perhaps after 30 mins or so?

No, i would make it apply to both, cops and raiders

 

[Moon]

No, i would make it apply to both, cops and raiders

That's probably the best solution sometimes there's 6TFU on duty but at least it gives you a slim hope of actually escaping

 

[John Daymon]

No thank you, shootouts are boring as fuck.

This is literally how every raid goes;

*Criminals get raided by cops
*Cops push up towards the base
*Criminals sit inside their shitty built bases
*Criminals just spray and kill cops who keep coming back
*Criminals never escape and if they do they don't hide
*Cops chase them for atleast two hours


This rule minimizes how many criminals make it out which reduces shootouts and the length of them, that's why I stand behind this rule.

 

[northnortheast]

Exactly I believe giving like a 15min timer for flankers is punishing enough with the current cops and how their playstyle like it's EFT extract camping quite literally they don't push a hour for only one guy left. It's clearly not balanced right now

Since when was getting away with murder and robbery considered an easy feat? Raids are high-risk, high-reward: not planning your raid well enough, not having enough people to reasonably push police back or flank, and not having an exit plan, but expecting it to be a walk in the park is just unreasonable.

Raids are volatile and require preparation. You can succeed a raid and defend against police if you have enough people and forethought, not just because your friends come back from the grave for the 3rd time to harass the officers outside.

Do not support this suggestion.