A Reason People break rules/The Subjectivity of rules

[Boon]

Rules are currently enforced by the discretion of the admin in charge of the situation, however i feel that this is a very conflictive and regressive way of dealing with events.
I witnessed a player breaking the rules today (the accusation of the rule he broke can be seen in the screenshot of the report screen) - I also do not wish for any action to be taken upon this player

The issue with the current system I see is that if Staff 1 would have dealt with the situation, the player would have been punished, if Staff 2 dealt with the situation, he wouldn't have been punished. Adding on to that, Hypothetically - if Staff 1 had witnessed the rule breaker and I did not report it (because Staff 2 had told me it wasn't against rules) I personally would be liable to punishment for 2.6 - Failing to report a rule breaker in his eyes.

On the flip side, if Staff 2 had of dealt with it - I would have been been liable for punishment for falsely reporting other players.

This means that (in extreme cases) any Player could be considered breaking a rule at any given time based on the admin at hand. The current investigation system is essentially a gamble on whether an admin will side with you or the other person involved.

Although this is the only evidence of this happening, it has happened to me in previous occurrences before this, and im sure other players of the community have experienced it also.

The third Admin report I have made has still not been replied to after 2-3 hours as of the time of posting this forum post and remains open even though staff are actively on the server

* I have Scribbled out the names of the staff in the reports to avoid the Forum rule 1.3 Slander as i do not wish for any negative repercussions to happen to the admins involved - Also no accusations are being made here
* I also understand that is what warning disputes are there for, however if situations were attended to Objectively, there would be a lot less warning disputes, and also, it must be appreciated that most players are just here to play the game and have fun and do not wish to spend hours in some cases disputing over warnings

VIEW IMAGES BELOW FOR CONTEXT


Staff 1 - https://gyazo.com/3d8b5a0adb9160da064f3bdebb6811c3
Staff 2 - https://gyazo.com/b5d363b477e00b22a3ffef73f34512a2
Unclosed report - https://gyazo.com/810af9fa36e6b8f231786c248b200434

 

[JustJosh]

The pictures are quite small to read but I totally agree with what you are saying, I have also talked to friends about this as we are told one thing by one staff member and another tells you something that completely contradicts what the first staff member and I would get a punishment.

EDIT: Although I don't entirely agree with the current system I do believe it is within best interest to keep it as is. So I agree with @Chris and @Fredy as you do have chances to appeal actions made by members of the staff team.

 

[Boon]

I have updated the photos with gyazo links man, sorry i didnt realise the photos were that small untill i posted it
[DOUBLEPOST=1472778325,1472778146][/DOUBLEPOST]

I have updated the photos with gyazo links man, sorry i didnt realise the photos were that small untill i posted it

Will Fix asap - my ignorance - not intentional

 

[TaliaKuznetsova]

i know exactly and the other admin overrides what the first one tells you or else this admin system is kind of dictator like.

 

[Thomas DeSimone]

I couldn't agree with you more. I don't particularly agree with the "admin's discretion" shit but I have to deal with it until it's changed (If it will be).

 

[Daigestive]

From what i've seen and been told with this situation you are allowed to handcuff a person thats sprinting away because you wouldn't have enough time to use a /me aslong as it's done in a realistic manner ( the guy isn't on top of a car ... or something stupid like that and you'd be able to tackle them ) This was only introduced 3-4 months ago im sure ... otherwise "ninja cuffing" is mostly used as a false accusation if done in a realistic manner. Been in a few situations like this myself.
Also there's not much you can do about Staff discretion but every staff member doesn't doubt a colleges judgment ... i have never had a problem like this. Furthermore i dont really see what rule you could add to prevent any this happening in future but to avoid this happening in future add something maybe to 2.1 or 3.3, whatever rule you take it as, saying more about "ninja cuffing" for both players and staff .

 

[Boon]

From what i've seen and been told with this situation you are allowed to handcuff a person thats sprinting away because you wouldn't have enough time to use a /me aslong as it's done in a realistic manner ( the guy isn't on top of a car ... or something stupid like that ) This was only introduced 3-4 months ago im sure ... otherwise "ninja cuffing" is mostly used as a false accusation if done in a realistic manner. Been in a few situations like this myself.
Also there's not much you can do about Staff discretion but every staff member doesn't doubt a colleges judgment ... i have never had a problem like this. Furthermore i dont really see what rule you could add to prevent any this happening in future but to avoid this happening in future add something maybe to 2.1 or 3.3, whatever rule you take it as, saying more about "ninja cuffing" for both players and staff .

This post was not to bring light on this specific situation but to the problem in general as this has been experienced by multiple people in all types of situations

 

[M]

You doubt the current mechanism of rule enforcement on the server but haven't suggested any alternative; that's simply because there is no practical alternative. In a roleplay game mode where the player has a very loose rule set to play by, there's definitely going to be subjectivity present when enforcing rules designed to provide a balanced experience: it's unavoidable. Unless you propose that we add every single possibility of play to the rules and practically write out a player's day on the server in black and white, I don't see any other solution to this.

Edit
If you feel that a staff member has misled you, you're welcome to contact them and see whether you've had a misunderstanding. I'm sure they'll account for and do everything practicable to make the result fairer.

 

[Fredy]

Rules are currently enforced by the discretion of the admin in charge of the situation, however i feel that this is a very conflictive and regressive way of dealing with events.

I just don't understand what you are even saying here. Any sufficiently complicated set of rules is either going to be incomplete or inconsistent (or both). That's exactly where admins come into play and decide situations based on their experience. Sometimes it might be the wrong decision but in the vast majority of cases it will be the right one.

Stuff about different admins giving different responses

The same applies to real life. Why do you think you usually have a court system with multiple instances and possibility to appeal? It's because the laws/rules are obviously being interpreted differently by different people. Just look at how many court cases IRL are being appealed and their result is then being changed by a higher instance (this is also one of the reason we allow for ban appeals).

This means that (in extreme cases) any Player could be considered breaking a rule at any given time based on the admin at hand. The current investigation system is essentially a gamble on whether an admin will side with you or the other person involved.

If you are unsure if someone broke a rule, rule 2.6 clearly doesn't apply as you didn't believe that he broke a rule. This means that there is no danger for you not reporting a rule-breaker if you don't know what the rules mean.
On the other hand if you report someone and it turns out you interpreted the rules wrong there is very little risk you will get banned either, so I really don't see how reporting someone is a gamble at all.

The third Admin report I have made has still not been replied to after 2-3 hours as of the time of posting this forum post and remains open even though staff are actively on the server

That's because two admins already responded to your report with different opinions. They don't want to get caught in the crossfire when they might not know a definitive answer to your question to either.

To answer your question though, arresting someone while they are running is completely fine in my opinion as it is very realistic for them to do so.

 

[M]

I did not look at the screenshots provided until now. Just thought I'd add something:

I am 'Staff 2' and I've basically given you the information that we were given a few months ago in a staff bulletin:

Therefore, as there's already a set answer to your question, there should not be any subjectivity at all. The staff member in question has probably just missed the bulletin or misunderstood, and you may wish to notify them privately of the screenshot in this post. In summary - you've provided us with one example, and it's not actually relevant to the argument of subjectivity being an issue.

 

[John Daymon]

Closed