Ammo Types

[StephenPuffs]

I should preface this by saying, no matter which way the vote goes this is on the back burner and wouldn't be changed soon.

When we first started PH we decided that we would keep it simple originally, but as any long term member would attest to PH has come a long way from where it began. So we had said at the time that multiple ammo types other than the basic would be unneeded. Now however I am wondering if we should do that. Since the guns already fire their correct ammo type and do damage accordingly. Like the MP5 and M9 both firing the 9x19mm Parabellum round. This then would reduce the price of some because of their lower caliber and lesser lethality. Obviously any current magazines and such would be converted to the proper type for that weapon.

This would make things like a Beretta M9 ammo (9x19mm) be plentiful because it's relatively cheap while a Desert Eagle's ammo (12.7x33mm Action Express) would be more costly. In some ways this also creates more opportunity to make bullet damages a bit more realistic. While the balancing is nice it's based somewhat on the notion there are only 4 unique ammo types but each gun has a different chambering. So the Desert Eagle could then do a fairly substantial amount of raw damage compared to the M9.

So it's all a bit confusing as it is good in some ways but will also make some guns perhaps a bit OP. I figure it's best to leave this question up to the community. I reserve the right to change just how powerful some ammo types may be though, and their penetrative power for armor, walls, people, etc.

 

[BlitZKrieG]

This would be cool and all, but it will affect a lot of players in a bad way meaning they will need to buy lots of types of ammo depending on the guns they use, but I support this by all means.

 

[John Daymon]

I would like an ammo type where instead of just there to instantly kill someone it simply makes them bleed, so for example when the bullet goes inside someone it will cause internal bleeding

 

[LEWIS 088]

I support this, Then I can buy million of ammo for my Glock and spray them fools down.

 

[Walker]

This is a good idea, however I don't think its really suitable for Perp, if guns will have certain ammo types people will have to go out and buy ammo to replace the ones they already have. I myself have around 30-40 boxes stockpiled, what will happen to that? I don't want it all turning into ammo for just one gun.

 

[Death Howl]

I thought you meant like Hollow Points or Armor Piercing. Adding ammo types for each gun will only make weapons even more confusing to operate. If you are going to introduce new ammo types it should be at a level where it is not so hard to find. Simply having the caliber down basicly like 9mm and 7.62mm would make it easier to understand rather than balistics jargon.

 

[StephenPuffs]

I suppose it's time I try to clear up any and all confusion/concerns to this point.

I would like an ammo type where instead of just there to instantly kill someone it simply makes them bleed, so for example when the bullet goes inside someone it will cause internal bleeding

• I have no idea what you mean by this, all guns would still cause bleeding, which has always been a mainstay of the PH style.

This is a good idea, however I don't think its really suitable for Perp, if guns will have certain ammo types people will have to go out and buy ammo to replace the ones they already have. I myself have around 30-40 boxes stockpiled, what will happen to that? I don't want it all turning into ammo for just one gun.

• Well there are a few different guns that share ammo calibers, such as an MP5 and the Beretta use 9x19mm Parabellum or a Sig Sauer 550 and the M4 both use 5.56x45mm.

I thought you meant like Hollow Points or Armor Piercing. Adding ammo types for each gun will only make weapons even more confusing to operate. If you are going to introduce new ammo types it should be at a level where it is not so hard to find. Simply having the caliber down basicly like 9mm and 7.62mm would make it easier to understand rather than balistics jargon.

• I mean I could go into how ballistic coefficients effect the drag of the bullet causing it to slow down during it's travel, but instead yes at least initially it would simply be each caliber would have it's own ammo container instead of loading generic [pistol | rifle | sniper | shotgun] ammo. Later on we could potentially have things like FMJ vs JHP vs other types, although that would be a lot more of a pain for both players and us trying to keep track of that information as we could then only allow you to fill an empty clip with a different type as combination clips would be far too much to keep track of. So initially each bullet would be like the FMJ version.

I wrote this originally while on my mobile device so I probably didn't explain it very well, but basically I have recently been redoing the bullet system some because it was one of the very first things I did in Lua so since then I have found better ways to do things and figured I should improve it. However just doing raw data of the different caliber's behavior, I have found that things like the Desert Eagle or the AK47 actually impacts with approximately 4x the kinetic energy than that of the Beretta M9, which would mean a huge difference in the stopping power of that round. As we only have generic pistol ammo at this time making it do a considerable amount more damage is a bit unfair since pistol ammo is one set price; so of course you'd always want to load into the gun that does the most damage.

The point of this idea/poll is to see if having the different ammo types would then allow us the freedom to have that many different kinds of ammunition and price them more appropriately for the damage capability. Several guns end up having to cost far more than they should just because of a type of round they fire. No one uses the G3A3 (if people even remember that it exists) because of the fact it uses "sniper ammo" which costs an arm and a leg per round, so there's little reason anyone would choose to use it. However if this idea were to be added the ammo type which it uses that the M24 and SR-25 both use as well, would be reduced considerably since right now the "sniper ammo" has to account for the M82A1 which fires the large 12.7x99mm round that more or less destroys anything the bullet touches on its travel.

I don't know if this changes anyone's mind that already voted or not, but that is my reasoning behind the poll. If we stick with the current system of the generic ammo types then it basically will force me to scale the damages to be more how they are presently whereby most pistols are roughly the same as one another but slightly different.

Full rundown:

(we'd go from 4 types of ammo boxes to 11 if accepted)

 

[blobvis 2.0]

@StephenPuffs , what Will be happening with THE rifle ammo in storage? As i craft them 100 at THE time?

~mobile

 

[Walker]

I think I have changed my mind, this could be really good! What will happen to ammo we have in storage, will we be able to choose what ammo it is changed to.

 

[John Daymon]

@StephenPuffs (cant comment) what i basically mean is an ammunition type that causes a heavier bleeding to the target

 

[StephenPuffs]

@blobvis 2.0 and @Walker there are numerous things we could do regarding existing ammo. Including but not limited to randomly choosing which type it would convert into, obviously the more expensive the ammo the less likely it would be it. So that's a bit of an unknown, but it would at least be something of near equal value generally, but what ammo type that would be specifically, not sure right now.

 

[Walker]

I think I have a solution to the rifle ammo problem, why don't we keep rifle ammo just stop people from crafting it, then it can be used up like it was and once people run out they will have to craft the other types.

Spoiler: My Storage Currently

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[Deleted member 5920]

When I was last playing, there was barely any shops that would sell ammo or mags simply due to the fact that it was too much effort/time lost crafting ammo to sell. I think it's the same with magazines. If this was implemented I feel like ammo craft time should be reduced.

 

[StephenPuffs]

When I was last playing, there was barely any shops that would sell ammo or mags simply due to the fact that it was too much effort/time lost crafting ammo to sell. I think it's the same with magazines. If this was implemented I feel like ammo craft time should be reduced.

Again this goes back to the whole thing of "pistol" ammo can be used in something like an OTs-33 or a Desert Eagle, where one is a powerful round and the other isn't so much. So the crafting time is partially biased to the more powerful guns so they aren't the easiest/cheapest to obtain. So if this idea were in place the mixtures would change to hopefully more reflect how powerful that round actually is and not just a generic guess.

P.S. The results are seriously so split, it's not making it easy to decide which way to go with this.

 

[Xquality]

If this vote goes through I'll be working on making models for each ammo type as well. As for crafting times I'd say being able to mass produce ammo boxes for a slightly faster crafting time as opposed to crafting each box individually would be pretty neat.

 

[The Strange Deranged Mage]

Has this been abandon or denied Stephen? I would really enjoy new balance mechanics and making the two battle rifles not cost a silver bullet to shoot.
As a matter of fact I made a small chart depicting my own opinion of planned stats, materials, and costs
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mr40XUNu04m0EyeFsR3PjXr-3j5tjPPdqxa7Oz-gaz0/edit?usp=sharing
This chart is keep in mind is currently AIDS, its far from complete and there is heavy unbalance and the costs are terribly done. Feel free to leave an anonymous comment

 

[Aeternus]

I think I have a solution to the rifle ammo problem, why don't we keep rifle ammo just stop people from crafting it, then it can be used up like it was and once people run out they will have to craft the other types.

Spoiler: My Storage Currently

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Perhaps if two recipes were added for the new ammo boxes; one which crafted an old ammo box into a chosen new one, and one which crafted raw materials into a new ammo box.

e.g. 9x19mm (MP5, M9) could have these two recipes:

Recipe 1:
Casings + brass bulk + metal + gunpowder --> 9x19mm ammo box

Recipe 2:
Pistol ammo --> 9x19mm

The old type of ammo boxes would obviously become uncraftable themselves, and would eventually leave the game once all of them have been used up.