BR/Demote RQ on Thomas George

[Deadlyron]

Your Steam/In-game Name: Ron Beton
His/Her Steam/In-game Name: Thomas George
His/Her SteamID: STEAM_0:0:35126079
Why Should This Player Be Punished:

Me and my partner Reggie Noble were doing police work since 01:30pm without any complaints so far. The demo will have to be started at around 30.500.

As you can see Officer Dimitrii started a pursuit on a vehicle, so we made a U-turn on the highway. After the LT called in that the vehicle wasn't going to pull over since he was afraid of the cops, Reggie and I decided that it was best to stop our pursuit to prevent further escalation in that pursuit. So, we took (rather late) the off-ramp towards the suburbs.

You can see me halt for a car making a U-turn, after which we drive away towards the on-ramp highway to continue our surveillance. I looked back to the car to see if he wasn't doing anything impulsive or breaking any other Laws. In the meantime I swerved ever so slightly over the white line in the middle of the road after which I corrected my manoeuver.

Suddenly, before turning up the on-ramp of the highway, I can hear a police car coming, I misjudged the turn so I bumped into the wall. And then suddenly the police car showed up, I made way assuming that he was on a Code Three Call-out. After he jumped out, I thought he was only joking and continued up there. Please note that there was no way for me knowing that he was a Sergeant of any sort, since he had a normal car and just pulled out his gun for no reason.

All of a sudden Thomas George is stating that I "was going rogue". So I stopped, but I couldn't get out. I wasn't aware I didn't do anything wrong. Reggie and me were baffled, but did what George told us thinking it was a joke at first. Out of the blue he pulls his gun and tells me to: "don't even think about pulling a gun or I'll fucking pop you."

Thomas George told the other officers that he was going to arrest me for: He is recklessly driving over the pavement (not true at all).

What struck me most was George saying: "I am sergeant you are just a little officer (...) I have a rank you have no rank."

The main thing is that my one second over the white line (keeping an eye out on a car), is not even noteworthy of a demote and not even jail time!

In sum, I am not initially stating that George has to be banned in any way, I just feel like a demote is in order. He is just power-hungry for being a Sergeant, and way too paranoia for something so small like this. Just wanting putting me in jail for absolutely nothing. He did not elaborate at all, he did not even speak to me or joined me into a debate. The main reason, I think, is he is "a sergeant" and I was just a little officer.


Evidence (Demo Required): https://mega.co.nz/#!5cEikaBQ!7IRMuxQ_gFwxFmsjSgp7F7l430ktnJFJ0N6IKw9rT9o

Tick: 30500

 

[Deleted member 1235]

Just to be clear which specific rule numbers are you stating he has broke here?

 

[DarkShadow]

+Supprot, Thomas George and his partner "Luke Person" was breaking rules/laws, unfortunately, i got no demo, nut big +support

 

[Deadlyron]

Just to be clear which specific rule numbers are you stating he has broke here?

I want to stress that I do not want to see George banned, however as a Sergeant he has lots of responsibilities including having a dialogue with his co-workers. Not ruling like some Emperor Caesar "you are just a little officer". This is just very disrespectful towards me, but also belitting the other officers because he is placing himself above the law.

He should have had a word with me, so I could explain why I was one inch over the white line. He was just way too overreacting, with placing me under gunpoint and he clearly showed no ability of projecting himself into my situation.

Not suited as a Sergeant as he, obviously, misses some vital people skills.

 

[ErmakDimon]

+support. I couldn't see the demo, but from what you said and my experience Thomas is a bad supervisor and has to be demoted.
Today I gave a ticket to a white Bugatti that pulled into the parking on so high speed that its front even flew in the air. When Thomas came, he didn't even want to listen to me, only to the driver and removed the ticket completely ignoring me.

 

[M]

Haven't yet looked at the demo, but I will when I have the time.

Based on a comment you made:

After he jumped out, I thought he was only joking and continued up there.

Take into account that the law states you must STOP for emergency vehicles, not just 'make way'.

Therefore what you have described seems to me like a clear attempt of evading police custody.

 

[Murtsley]

I take it that you're making a BR on rule 4.1 (11.11, 1.1), and generally his attitude to other officers and how he performs as a Sergeant?

 

[ThomasGeorge]

Really? I mean... really?! I believed you were breaking the law and I pulled you over. As soon as I said "going rogue" it wasn't in a serious manner at all.

"Just a little officer" was me not finding the correct word to call you. In my eyes, no rules were broken here and this is absolutely daft.

In all honesty, this isn't worth a ban request or demotion request. I felt that your actions were breaking the law and you had to be removed from your position. At any moment, you could've requested the Lt. (who happened to be @Mannerwaffel ) to be there at any moment. I'm sorry, but this is preposterous.

Murtsley believes you think I'm breaking rule 1.1 which is

"1.1 Disrespectful Behaviour - Disrespectful behaviour, in its broadest sense, is not acceptable; users are expected to conduct themselves respectfully at all times."

The rule 1.1 used for out-of-character insults or disrespect, I believe that what I said was indeed in-character and wasn't intended for out-of-character at all. Why would you think that?

"Don't even think about pulling a gun or I'll fucking pop you."

was not directed at you, but at your passenger. This was a direct message towards you to remind yourself that you were under gun-point and if you even thought about legging it...

"Not suited as a Sergeant as he, obviously, misses some vital people skills."

so? Some people act the same way when under similar situations. For example; Luke.

This is just very disrespectful towards me, but also belitting the other officers because he is placing himself above the law.

The idea of the SGT. is that he is essentially second in-command. During that situation, I was in-charge of it and thought that giving you a short jail sentence was a suitable option. If I wanted, I could've given you a ticket but I thought jail was a suitable option.

Not ruling like some Emperor Caesar

This is like comparing me to Hitler, or Gadaffi. I was not a dictator that orders millions of deaths of people. I was simply a Police Sergeant of the Paralake Police Department dealing with an incident which I thought you were in the wrong. Everyone knows a Hitler, but I would not count my actions as one. Not once did you speak out that you wanted to talk to the Lt that I can recall. From what I remember, you were acting oppressed when you had the right to talk.

At any moment of time during your journey towards the jail cell, you could had requested the Lt.'s presence under law 10.2. Under law 10.1 I arrested you.


Now, Dinkleberg.

There are no pedestrians on the middle of the road

I know, however there are pedestrians on the pavement or those who are crossing. His driving could've caused the death of a pedestrian if he were to swerve out of control.

In conclusion; this was an IC matter and should had been dealt with in-character. People get accused of all sorts everyday and they are wrongly punished. If you ever felt that you were wrongly punished, you should had contacted the Lt or the Mayor to arrange a meeting with me or something along those lines. As stated previously, I am dismissing this thread as "rather daft" as I personally believe you have no reason to place a demotion request just because I called you "a little officer" and you had "gone rogue". Perhaps you were driving perfectly all day and you just happened to go into the middle of the road, perhaps you weren't. But personally, this should had been dealt with in-character and is not worthy of a demotion, or a ban.

 

[Dinkleberg]

@

• 1. ThomasGeorge Personally, I thought that it was worth jail-time seeing that his driving could've lead to an accident or death of a driver/pedestrian.

There are no pedestrians on the middle of the road
[DOUBLEPOST=1430768313,1430767012][/DOUBLEPOST]@ThomasGeorge But there are expected to be drivers too... duh.

That's very true, and it should definitely not go unnoticed,

but I'll have to quote this from Ron's original post: "You can see me halt for a car making a U-turn, after which we drive away towards the on-ramp highway to continue our surveillance. I looked back to the car to see if he wasn't doing anything impulsive or breaking any other Laws. In the meantime I swerved ever so slightly over the white line in the middle of the road after which I corrected my manoeuver. "Besides, this is supposed to be a realistic roleplay. You don't throw someone in jail for a minor traffic violation. Sometime like this should get a warning or a ticket. Usually a warning since it was for a split second.

Made a comment because the reply was too long

 

[Liam]

Just like to add this for anyones future preference.

What struck me most was George saying: "I am sergeant you are just a little officer (...) I have a rank you have no rank."

A sergeant has the same power as a normal police officer and in can in no way overrule a normal Police Officer. The only person that can overrule a Police Officer is the Lieutenant which is stated in the following laws.

10.1 - Law-Enforcement Officer's Discretion
(I've cut some of the law out it's extended)​

Every law-enforcement decision, from whether or not to issue a fine to executing a criminal, is made by the Police Officer(s) who are either at the scene or have arrested the criminal(s); such decisions can only be overruled by the Police Lieutenant.

Then if we look at law 10.2:

10.2 Police Lieutenant's Disrection

The Police Lieutenant has the same rights as Police Officers, regarding the decision of what penalties criminals should receive; however, the Police Lieutenant is able to overrule another Police Officer’s decision if their decision is deemed to be unfair, unreasonable, biased and/or influenced. If a criminal believes that their conviction was made unfairly, unreasonably, that it was biased and/or influenced, they have the right to make a request to a Police Officer that the Police Lieutenant reviews their conviction.In the event that a request has been made for the Police Lieutenants to make a review of a conviction, the Police Lieutenant must do so, unless otherwise occupied.​

Something else I'd like to add is

You then blurted out something along the lines of "Shut the fuck up you little kid!". I then also believe you were spoken to (or were going to be spoken to) by the Lt. (@Mannerwaffel again).

That's totally irrelivent to the ban request you've even stated yourself that you believe he was spoken to.

Finally from what I've read I believe that you were totally out of order. Why would to attempt to arrest him for making a silly driving mistake? That's just like arresting someone for a miss-click. I believe that you are trying to be too much like Luke and @Chris - Also one last thing I'd like to know @ThomasGeorge under what law were you going to punish him for?

 

[Panda]

I belive the jail is too much. Wouldnt a ticket be better?

 

[ThomasGeorge]

From what I can tell, this has all been one big misunderstanding all due to a lack of communication between us and anyone else of any relevance. It's a bit excessive to make a thread to get me banned or demoted for this event.

@Deadlyron , I am sorry that the punishment I had given you seemed to be a bit unfair. But let me remind you; you had the right to request the Lt but you chose not to.
In future when things like this occur always request the Lt. As I said before, you may had been driving superbly all day, but I just managed to catch you as soon as you went into the middle of the road. Intentional or not.

 

[Ash]

After viewing the demo it seems that Thomas George acted generally unprofessional by the comments such as;
"I am sergeant you are just a little officer (...) I have a rank you have no rank.".
Generally speaking Sergeants do have authority over other officers, however supervisors shouldn't be acting in such ways where their professionalism is dropping hugely as we can witness in the video shown. The fact that you actually were arrested and demoted for this is quite unnecessary as it's a simple mistake made on your behalf which shouldn't be treated in the way that it was. Therefore, the user 'Thomas George' will receive a warning for generally being unprofessional as a Supervisor.

Accepted​