Citizens Bill of Rights

[Ezrider]

Topic: Citizen's Bill of Rights (rip title)



Short explanation (in notes):
Currently the police have way too much power over poor Paralake citizens and limits and rights should be established to avoid Paralake becoming a police state(kinda too late).



Detailed description (why should it become added/...): It'd provide some nice lawyer RP if implemented correctly. It'd also allow citizens of PH to be able to defend themselves against the law and be able to do some nice passive rp things once in awhile. It'd also allow obvious other things which I'm not going to list but you can figure out the rest for yourself.



Optional additions:
Should be written by someone competent enough to combat some of the laws made and if implemented some of the laws should be changed/removed to make it equal and realistic.


Example:
The right to bear arms = concealed carry permits or open carry permits
Search warrants needed to open trunks etc.
The right to not consent to a random search etc.

 

[Imperial Watch]

Im going to disagree to this proposal and the reasons are as following:
1. With regards to the lawyers, citizens are allowed to receive formal legal counseling, however its up to the officer wether or not he actually wants a lawyer present inside the PD.

2. You already have the right to bear arms, just as long as it's not displayed in a public setting / area (and the laws regarding firearms are upheld). The city, keep in mind, is a city where officers are killed in the middle of the street all day every day and where violence is a common occurrence. So the city would have no interest in further enabling the violence and therefor wants to keep the firearms restricted to people's own properties.

3. You might not consent to a search, but we are still going to do it anyway. Searches should never be random, however if an officer has reasonable suspicion that you are infact carrying something illegal (in relation to a recently commited crime or if you are in his custody) he may search you. You should never just handcuffed in the middle of the street and searched at random.

Like I said, these are just my 2 cents.

 

[Ezrider]

Im going to disagree to this proposal and the reasons are as following:
1. With regards to the lawyers, citizens are allowed to receive formal legal counseling, however its up to the officer wether or not he actually wants a lawyer present inside the PD.

2. You already have the right to bear arms, just as long as it's not displayed in a public setting / area (and the laws regarding firearms are upheld). The city, keep in mind, is a city where officers are killed in the middle of the street all day every day and where violence is a common occurrence. So the city would have no interest in further enabling the violence and therefor wants to keep the firearms restricted to people's own properties.

3. You might not consent to a search, but we are still going to do it anyway. Searches should never be random, however if an officer has reasonable suspicion that you are infact carrying something illegal (in relation to a recently commited crime or if you are in his custody) he may search you. You should never just handcuffed in the middle of the street and searched at random.

Like I said, these are just my 2 cents.

Very extremely valid points, which I'm going to address right now. With number 1, yeah it's up to the officer hence Paralake becoming a police state. We're literally investing all of the punishments and arbitrary powers within the officer which shouldn't be done.

As for number 2 I understand that. However, from the European viewpoint you guys aren't really used to seeing guns around holstered and what not in shops which is quite funny. For instance, There's a difference between hostile displayal of weaponry and displayal of weaponry which isn't even listed in the laws but you are still punished for it regardless which is quite stupid. But seeing as you guys are European and probably haven't seen a real gun at McDonalds before, it's completely understandable why you're so anti-gun and freaked out about it.

The city, keep in mind, is a city where officers are killed in the middle of the street all day every day and where violence is a common occurrence. So the city would have no interest in further enabling the violence and therefor wants to keep the firearms restricted to people's own properties.

Wrong, this city is a place where officers are killed when responding to raid calls etc, however this due to their incompetence and other players competence in killing. If they took 3.4/3.6 into more consideration while playing the game responding to heavily armed people, they wouldn't die all the time by responding to calls blindly attempting to be Super Man. Giving players concealed carry permits wouldn't change a thing imo seeing as they do it anyway but that's me. You would also entice them less to run from you or resist a search if they're being stopped.

You might not consent to a search, but we are still going to do it anyway. Searches should never be random, however if an officer has reasonable suspicion that you are infact carrying something illegal (in relation to a recently commited crime or if you are in his custody) he may search you. You should never just handcuffed in the middle of the street and searched at random.

Now that everyone has the search capability, is going to make "reasonable suspicion" a joke seeing as Ermak or any good bser like half of the PD can come up with an easy reason to search you. And the ability to deny officers access to your personal belongings(Car and your body) is what should be available to the citizens of PH (I know you guys aren't used to having rights :murica: )

 

[Smeris]

The right to not consent to a random search etc

Sorry but i do not support this. Theres the "constetutionalists" on perp already and its just a pain in the ass.

It'll probably turn into this

 

[Robin Ljungberg]

-

 

[Frank]

As much as I would love to say yes, there are many disadvantages. I do not know much about this but I can think a lot about this.

Citizen's Bill of rights is a way where citizens can actually defend themselves in violation of laws. What I do not like about this is what @Sneaky wrote. It's not that I didn't like it but the video he put in shows an amazing example of what can happen. If you did not do anything wrong and have no illegals, why defend yourself and be a cunt and "show off" your amazing rp skills when you're just wasting time? As you can see in the video;

It'll probably turn into this

The family are refusing to a search which it is the law that it happens. If random searches happen a supervisor complaint and RR's are there for a reason. So why do you need to waste time on defending yourself?

If he asks for a search, ask the laws you broke and co-operate so then it get's dealt with. Also whitelist is happening officially soon so I do not think this is needed.

Also, I might not be accurate on the subject but I am clear enough on what I thought about this.

 

[joR]

Sadly 'lawyer roleplay' usually ends up with them attempting to break their friend out. As brought up already, if the Officer is fine with allowing legal advice from another member of the public then that's okay. However, if you have an issue with why you have been detained/arrested then you are more than welcome to request their supervisor to give their opinion.

to avoid Paralake becoming a police state(kinda too late).

Mind giving a few examples?

Should be written by someone competent enough to combat some of the laws made and if implemented some of the laws should be changed/removed to make it equal and realistic.

In my opinion the laws are 'equal'(?) and realistic, little unsure what you mean by equal when the law applies to everyone. If you have any suggestions, place it in the law reform section and get a discussion going.

The right to bear arms = concealed carry permits or open carry permits

If you want something like this, open a discussion on the law reform section and see what people think. I'd love a system like this which I've found fantastic on San Andreas multiplayer. However, they have a fantastic system where criminals can't get permits like that.

The right to not consent to a random search etc.

Of course if an officer wants to search you for no reason you can refuse. However if an officer has the lawful grounds to search you, they do not need your consent. If an officer is searching you for no reason, contact a staff member of create a supervisor complaint if applicable.

Now that everyone has the search capability, is going to make "reasonable suspicion" a joke

Officers have always had the capabilities to search another player with the use of /me. Now they can do it automatically and make sure the other player is being truthful. Not too sure how this would impact reasonable suspicion?

And the ability to deny officers access to your personal belongings(Car and your body) is what should be available to the citizens of PH (I know you guys aren't used to having rights :murica: )

Again I'm not too familiar with American search laws but can they not search your person and belongings if they have reasonable suspicion that you have committed or are going to be commit a crime? Again, if there is an issue or you would like it different, head to the law reform section and open a discussion. I'd love to hear from the community about the laws, it seems people only complain once they change rather than taking any action.

Anyway, I fully respect you for making this thread however it seems like a very stereotypical and exaggerated view of the Police in game just like people are in real life! it seems you have many suggestions Ezrider, please bring them up in the law reform section with some constructive ideas and I'm sure something can be done, in a honesty I'd like to hear them. @Imperial Watch's reply sums up my opinion on this. Fight the power amirite.
All these agree ratings on OP but no law reform suggestions?

Sorry about any mistakes I'm on my phone

 

[Ezrider]

Sadly 'lawyer roleplay' usually ends up with them attempting to break their friend out. As brought up already, if the Officer is fine with allowing legal advice from another member of the public then that's okay. However, if you have an issue with why you have been detained/arrested then you are more than welcome to request their supervisor to give their opinion.



Mind giving a few examples?



In my opinion the laws are 'equal'(?) and realistic, little unsure what you mean by equal when the law applies to everyone. If you have any suggestions, place it in the law reform section and get a discussion going.



If you want something like this, open a discussion on the law reform section and see what people think. I'd love a system like this which I've found fantastic on San Andreas multiplayer. However, they have a fantastic system where criminals can't get permits like that.



Of course if an officer wants to search you for no reason you can refuse. However if an officer has the lawful grounds to search you, they do not need your consent. If an officer is searching you for no reason, contact a staff member of create a supervisor complaint if applicable.



Officers have always had the capabilities to search another player with the use of /me. Now they can do it automatically and make sure the other player is being truthful. Not too sure how this would impact reasonable suspicion?



Again I'm not too familiar with American search laws but can they not search your person and belongings if they have reasonable suspicion that you have committed or are going to be commit a crime? Again, if there is an issue or you would like it different, head to the law reform section and open a discussion. I'd love to hear from the community about the laws, it seems people only complain once they change rather than taking any action.

Anyway, I fully respect you for making this thread however it seems like a very stereotypical and exaggerated view of the Police in game just like people are in real life! it seems you have many suggestions Ezrider, please bring them up in the law reform section with some constructive ideas and I'm sure something can be done, in a honesty I'd like to hear them. @Imperial Watch's reply sums up my opinion on this. Fight the power amirite.
All these agree ratings on OP but no law reform suggestions?

Sorry about any mistakes I'm on my phone

Gotcha bb, I see this isn't hitting off well without actually suggesting things to fix issues. I thought you guys would've been able to see things from a different perspective.

Mind giving a few examples?

Sure, you guys now have a more established presence with the recent update which is fine however you still need to manage shit like:

• Officers going door to door into Regals apartments after a raid has happened that clearly has nothing to do with that apartment [you could possibly, you know, make sure it's the right apartment?]
• Officer's lethal and nonlethal protocol when it comes to vehicles [if we really care about realism]
• Officer's coordination to raids [most if not all of the PD dies trying to be Dare Devil]
• Officer's ability to punish [which is going to be sorted out apparently]
• Officer's protocol so searching doesn't become an issue now that the search feature is actually added [we can talk about "/me searches" all we want but if people like Ermak stop suspects in vehicles and "smells weed"... rip]

and the rest you can probably figure out yourselves

In my opinion the laws are 'equal'(?) and realistic, little unsure what you mean by equal when the law applies to everyone. If you have any suggestions, place it in the law reform section and get a discussion going.

You addressed my double jeopardy situation but I'm not too sure if you're to keen on making punishments realistic because your main focus is stopping crime. However, laws like the display law, is quite funny because there's a difference between displayal and hostile displayal of weaponry as we all know. You basically get told to put your weapon away if it's on your back and you're on your own property or are even written up for it without a warning (depending on the officer). It's not realistic to say the least, I'd understand having your gun out in passive/attack stance but having it on your back and going about your daily life isn't something worth yelling displayal over. (I think this law may be changed because of the way you worded it now "Any person who display an offensive weapon in a public setting commits an offence." but I may be wrong however, it's still worth mentioning)

Again I'm not too familiar with American search laws but can they not search your person and belongings if they have reasonable suspicion that you have committed or are going to be commit a crime? Again, if there is an issue or you would like it different, head to the law reform section and open a discussion. I'd love to hear from the community about the laws, it seems people only complain once they change rather than taking any action.

Anyway, I fully respect you for making this thread however it seems like a very stereotypical and exaggerated view of the Police in game just like people are in real life! it seems you have many suggestions Ezrider, please bring them up in the law reform section with some constructive ideas and I'm sure something can be done, in a honesty I'd like to hear them. @Imperial Watch's reply sums up my opinion on this. Fight the power amirite.
All these agree ratings on OP but no law reform suggestions?

No you can refuse and have them have a court order to search your vehicle which'll require your car to be towed and you can not consent to a search if you'd like to. :Murica: .

It's not really stereotypical or hyperbole meant not to be taken seriously, it's just a means for rights to be added to limit the police's power and provide rights to citizens of paralake. Think of it as the magna carta of PH.