Defences Discussion (Staff and community don't communicate)

[Walker]

Well just recently two staff members came storming into my house taking down majority of my props and I don't see why. Only the other day I confirmed with @Bolli that things like:

Are allowed. This was discussed after another 2 mods invalidly came and moved all of our defence in parker (Matstar and Smudger).

I am now being told that it was all discussed in some staff meeting yet no one cared to tell anyone about this? Past when I have asked whats been discussed in a meeting I am politely told to fuck off yet now things are being discussed which affect players.

Start communicating with players because its pissing a lot of people off.
[DOUBLEPOST=1464961335,1464961156][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh yeah and the excuse that "Defences must be fair for both sides" is the biggest load of shit I have heard in along time. Defenses are meant to give the defenders the advantage so when thats the reason for taking them down I don't see any logic there.

 

[Teemo]

Staff members may think Walker's being harsh, but truthfully, we were all thinking this and only Walker had the balls to make a post about it. Communication is key with the community and staff. If we start saying, "It needs to be fair for both sides" it's like saying criminals and cops should be equal. It's just how it has to be because if you're raiding , you need to be at a disadvantage especially versus say Walker and his unlimited armory of grenades and flashbangs.

 

[Jeffer Cake]

+Support

Why the fuck Staff members should be allowed just to go into a base when the owner isn't even present and start tearing it apart because of 'Admin Discretion' is complete bullshit. It's not our fault if one Mod checked our base at the start of the day and gave us the all clear, and then some other staff members rocks up and thinks our base is the most over powered thing since sliced bread. Not to mention that if you didn't realize, defenses are supposed to be OP and are supposed to give the home owners an unfair advantage. Raiders have plenty of tools at their disposal to be able to raid a base successfully; bombs, grenades, flash bangs, high caliber weapons so there is no reason why simple defenses like the one Walker has shown shouldn't be allowed. As long as you can see the head, someone can get 1 banged easily.

What if I was AFK and a Staff member ripped up my defenses and then my door starts being bobbied, I run forward to a defense I thought was there which ends up to be in the corner of the room. Such a dumb concept.

Make Guidelines on what people can and can't do when basing, and people will follow them. Or it just ends up 1 guideline for one mod and another guideline for a different staff member which confuses the fuck out of people.

 

[jay_]

The whole reason defenders have the advantage is to stop the Raiders from killing them. Raiders know when they raid a house that they have the disadvantage and that's the risk of raiding; You die or you come out with a reward. I also don't see why the staff can not just ask you to remove them or move them around a bit to make it more realistic instead of throwing them down and making a massive mess of props (Especially in the middle of a fire-fight). I agree with you here.

 

[Keel]

also don't see why the staff can not just ask you to remove them or move them around a bit to make it more realistic instead of throwing them down and making a massive mess of props

I agree with this. I Morons once a mod came in and just REMOVED props. I know they are in expensive and stuff but really they should just ask you to remove it yourself.

 

[John Daymon]

You have to understand that defences are currently shit and have been since 2015, if you looked at 2014 the defences were really good and simple as fuck. I don't see why you would be mad about this whole situation considering you didn't get any punishment or anything like that, you wan't to be told about your defences and whats allowed and not; You did get told about what's not acceptable not fucking warned for it.

What if I was AFK and a Staff member ripped up my defenses

"What if we tried speaking to you but you were AFK and you never responded"

Everyone here who are supporting and such please just understand that defences at the moment are aids as hell, if you were to play during EvoCity or Paralake V1 you would know that the defences were much better then, it wasn't a problem back then because everyone were on the same page, so instead of going full PERPHEADS REVOLUTION accept the moderator/administrators words until a full announcment has been made.

 

[Imperial Watch]

What some people fail to realize is that the server emulates real life. Which is why some leeway is given when it comes to defences.
However when you make an impenetrable fortress of doom, that is where staff draw the line. Of course it has to give a distinct advantage for the defenders, but not to the point where its almost impossible for people to raid at all.
Its supposed to an uphill battle for the raiders, however what youre asking for is for the raiders to jump over a 10 meter tall wall.
People have to consider that the properties there are supposed to be used for several "realistic purposes". the purpose of it is not for you to design it into a death trap for anyone that dares enter the lion's den.

 

[TheFrozenMonkeyKing]

I think that you should be allowed to build smart defences. That doesn't mean I think you should be able to simply place concrete barricades however you want. In my point of view, all concrete barricades that are levitating above the floor in any way should be removed. Not only would it be hard to get one there, but I am pretty sure it would have problem staying there. A couple of cinder blocks are not enough.

 

[John Daymon]

One thing I have to add up aswell is that you want us to speak to you all the time but as soon as we speak to you, you won't accept it and say "nononono this and this has said that" when it's not true, we can bring up a prime example of someone who did this (name wont be said)

Moron said this was fine hang on gonna talk to him

Moron had never said it was allowed, Moron said nothing about this base and never accepted it. So there we have one thing people lying about certain things or you just saying no about it. Now I can bring up an example of an excellent member who actually asks and understands our word is the final word in situations and that is @Whitewolf

One thing people fail to understand aswell is that you don't roleplay the "criminal life" correctly you say; Oh we need this and that for the cops cus they have armour and bullshit like that, there's so many times you're dumb enough to kill all cops then stay inside your base, of course they're gonna come back and fuck you up again, of course they will, it's not like they're just gonna be like; hehexd we just failed a raid hehexd.

 

[Walker]

My point is that Staff and the Community should play a part in deciding whats allowed and whats not allowed. Make the post, get peoples opinions and if the majority like it then thats what should happen. Staff enforce the rules that players have to abide by and changing how something is enforced compared to previously with little to no warning is something I don't see as fair or right. Its a community and rules should be set in place by players and staff to make sure everyone enjoys the gamemode. This is a sandbox game after all.

https://perpheads.com/forums/rules-discussion.40/ is a prime example of where staff and players discuss rules and this way the majority of players agree with the changes.


EDIT: I spoke to some people and ratings apparently play a part in posts. People are not always going to like the suggested idea and you see that in mostly all the ideas and suggestion threads. Why should you not make a post because you think the community are not going to like it.

EDIT 2: I could go on and give evidence of this and I have given evidence to some staff that I spoke to but its just going to cause more shit. We are a community and decisions on things that affect everyone should be made by everyone.

 

[JARRE]

Oh yeah and the excuse that "Defences must be fair for both sides" is the biggest load of shit I have heard in along time. Defenses are meant to give the defenders the advantage so when thats the reason for taking them down I don't see any logic there.

I've heard this multiple times myself and this is just my opinion about this thing.


I can agree that things can be unfair if you cannot see the person yet the person can see you.

However if both parties are visible at any given moment everything should be fine.

Take it this way, if I build the biggest castle inside my regals to make it easier for me to defend yet my head is visible there shouldn't be a problem. Do we have to take you into consideration when you're raiding us? Gather information about the base, know where the person is. Use a bomb, sniper or whatever you think works best. That's how you make it fair for yourself

If I have a big ass castle chances are there is only 1 perfect spot for me, meaning I will mostly be at that spot. Pre-fire me before I can react to you and boom I'm dead.

-Opinion of a power grower.

 

[Murtsley]

We're upholding existing rules which have a section stating, "Administrator's Discretion". We've been given a new citation on how we should deal with the situations. We don't tell you whilst you're being raided, we don't crap on you through unfreezing everything and destroying it (What I suggested we should do.) Instead @MrLewis @GraveDinosaur have decided to coordinate the staff team to ensure fairness for all and generally stop these "DarkRP-ish" bases. Even if you say that we've not spoken to Senior Administration, they would agree because we're backing things up as it enforces the realism of our "SERIOUSRP SERVER".

I can understand that you'll lose money and in-game drugs because of these changes. But instead of running back to base when you're wanted, use your head and hide away. If the police have a reason to search, contest their law knowledge through the use of your own knowledge. At the end of the day, you're probably equally

And for the record, if a staff member says that your base is invalid and another says it's okay, then assume it's not okay. It's not because we hate you, it's because we have to enforce rules.

"All staff members need a level of cunty-ness to ensure that we can enforce the rules." - Murtsley.

And to your argument about Administrators making a decision without Seniors being present:

ADMINISTRATOR

Administrators are generally picked by the Senior Administration team. We look for Administrators that have a certain set of qualities; confidence, good discretion, management and control. Administrators also assist the Senior Administration in their duties, this includes but not necessarily limited to the following, assisting the Senior Administration team when going through applications, passing on messages to staff members and helping with additions to rules/laws. Administrators are still obliged to assist the staff team with reports.

"Administrators also assist the Senior Administration in their duties"

 

[MoronPipllyd]

While I do agree with you that there is often inconsistency regarding the acceptance of certain defences from the Administrative side of things this doesn't necessarily mean its a result of poor communication. There always has been varied opinions regarding different methods of defending, this is an inevitability when the enforcement of this rule allows for Admin discretion. Yesterday in the Staff meeting the team got together and decided to work on making the enforcement of this rule clearer and more consistent by discussing and coming to an agreement what popular defences were allowed and not allowed. In order to more clearly communicate to the players what these changes entail I will make an effort to update and alter some of the rules regarding defences and hopefully get a thread out soon.

 

[Frank]

Once a moderator stormed in my store and just broke every shit I had. He just threw shit left right and center and didn't talk to me only just said that it was invalid. Made me pretty mad and had to build again. They should communicate with players more.

 

[Jimmy]

The amount if slander in this thread is unreal. Cut the we're all friends here.

Before I make my point I'll say that I am not a fan of elaborate defences and agree with the staff team's decision to cut down on the unrealistic darkrp clash of clans bs that we've been seeing lately.

However. There are multiple times I can think of when staff have enforced changes to the rules that were discussed in a "Staff Meeting" and were not announced to the general conmunity. Instances similair to the above where staff will tell off a player for violating some rule when they were under the impression it was justified. For example the fairly recent outlawing of "banter", there was no forum thread or any official announcement, just rumours from random people saying "banter is not allowed anymore".

I think staff need to understand that these meetings only involve them and that if there is some change to the correct interpretation of the rules, be it minor or drastic, then the community should be informed about it through the official channels, i.e a forum announcement. Otherwise we can't be expected to know about these changes that are all of a sudden being enforced.