Police - Use of Force.

[Daigestive]

Decided to make the thread here to reduce police bias on the debate.

Two Policies to take account:

• A firearm may only be used when there is clear and present danger to life and other non-lethal methods are inappropriate or have failed.
• Firearms should never be used to apprehend a fleeing suspect, unless justified in the point above.

Understandably, this varies from situation to situation.

However, currently this is being enforced by IA and PSD as if you previously shot at officers shortly before fleeing, an officer can shoot at you as you are a "possible" threat to others lives.

I don't agree with this. For me to be shot at you'd have to be actively attempting to kill another person to make it "clear and present".

There's now been a change in how IA complaints used to be dealt with and are now dealt with because of this even though the policy is written the same.

To me this is an issue that needs to be dealt with as I see different officers doing different things in this situation and as it is there's no right or wrong just a grey area.

@Samuel
@ayjay ツ
@Max

 

[Xquality]

So what you're saying is, you can shoot an officer then run off and become untouchable just to turn around and shoot another cop and repeat until all cops are dead? What if a group of suspects did this? Would be amusing to watch.

 

[Daigestive]

So what you're saying is, you can shoot an officer then run off and become untouchable just to turn around and shoot another cop and repeat until all cops are dead? What if a group of suspects did this? Would be amusing to watch.

Like I said it varies from situation to situation. That wouldn't be fleeing. I disagree with anyone being shot in the back while fleeing. Obviously If someone has the chance to flee they'll use it and turning around to kill cops unless its neccesary could end up breaking 3.4.

 

[Slayerduck]

Hah, you know what i told you on steam when you were so sure the IA complaint is gonna get trough?

What you're suggesting makes no sense, because someone who goes out their way to kill an officer is a threat to anyone's life even if they are trying to flee, especially at high speeds. I can think of 2 scenario's that i would do if i personally witnesses someone killing a LEO as another LEO.

A) If the person jumped into a friends car with a gun on his back i would fire at the car until it either stops or breaks down.
B) If the LEO murderer with a viable firearm jumps into his own car or a car he has keys to and tries to flee i would empty every single bullet from my weapon into that car until hes either dead or surrenders. Is this extreme? No, because if he had the chance he would hop out and kill me to. This is what would happen in a real life scenario to.

 

[Aquaa]

lol just shoot the fucker in the head if he's running away thats how we did it in 2015 LOL

 

[Sam]

It's quite simple really,

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Tries to leave = Do not open fire.

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers = Feel free to open fire, as the suspect is clearly posing a threat and is using the vehicle to kill officers.

Suspect have just killed 5 officers in bazaar > the suspect places 4 drug plants in the back of their raptor > the suspect tries to drive away towards city bridge = Do not open fire at the vehicle as he suspect is clearly trying to leave.

You may only open fire on a vehicle if the person driving or the passengers of the vehicle is posing a direct threat to you or others.

Any person may use a justifiable amount of force proportionate to a threat if they reasonably believe that such force would prevent injury, death or the loss of property or possessions.

 

[MrAaron]

Better to create a chase on PERP for a few hours than just take a prisoner to jail for 5 minutes and then not see them for 10 hours as they’re growing. Prolong shit and make people’s lives wank.

 

[Illuminathan]

It's quite simple really,

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Tries to leave = Do not open fire.

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers = Feel free to open fire, as the suspect is clearly posing a threat and is using the vehicle to kill officers.

Suspect have just killed 5 officers in bazaar > the suspect places 4 drug plants in the back of their raptor > the suspect tries to drive away towards city bridge = Do not open fire at the vehicle as he suspect is clearly trying to leave.

You may only open fire on a vehicle if the person driving or the passengers of the vehicle is posing a direct threat to you or others.

If he flees he still a threat to the public and non-lethal force can be used until he is put to a full stop and is not a threat anymore. If someone tries to shoot me and then goes into their vehicle fuck yes if I'm gonna shoot up their car until it's fucking wrecked. They are a threat to the public and law enforcement. If they don't want their car to be sprayed with bullets then simply surrender or don't do crimeRP.

 

[Daigestive]

It's quite simple really,

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Tries to leave = Do not open fire.

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers = Feel free to open fire, as the suspect is clearly posing a threat and is using the vehicle to kill officers.

Suspect have just killed 5 officers in bazaar > the suspect places 4 drug plants in the back of their raptor > the suspect tries to drive away towards city bridge = Do not open fire at the vehicle as he suspect is clearly trying to leave.

You may only open fire on a vehicle if the person driving or the passengers of the vehicle is posing a direct threat to you or others.

There's a shame PSD are not enforcing it like this.

 

[money]

I don't get the issue with this car thing.
If they shot an officer and get into their vehicle, stand infront of it, or by the left side where it can only damage you if it moves (when its a supercar).
Then open fire on the vehicle as soon as it touches you and your screen flashes red, or use alt to get out of the way and shoot it up (supercar)

 

[rat]

I don't care what @Samuel says I regularly open fire on suspects vehicles as they still pose a direct threat. If they were stopped they would open fire again and they are quite clearly still armed so whats the problem.

This also applies to unarmed suspects, if you're unarmed (with a gun on your back) in a crowd of armed people and have shot cops I'm not going to not treat you as an active combatant

 

[Dom_]

atm cops just shoot every car that leaves a crime scene and this is fucking ridiculous, yes, usually it is a suspect and yes they may be trying to flank, but 80% of the time when people get in their car and start driving away from a gunfight its bc they dont want to die and want to get away. The police at the moment are shooting everything that moves in a shootout regardless of if they are posing a threat or not, they see a man get in a car, they shoot it, they see a man with a gun on his back down the road who is not involved, they assume he is and shoot him, they see an unarmed guy leave the apt surrendering @Samuel they fucking shoot him, its just stupid and unrealistic. I understand in big shootouts when there is a car constantly driving around like a twat and keeps jumping out and running ppl over, but when someone is clearly trying to drive away and the car gets shot up still its just ridiculous. Officers need to realise that if someone is fleeing they dont intend to kill more officers at that point and by shooting the car and forcing them to exit it is putting more lives in danger which completely contradicts and goes against the two policies @Daigestive has stated. Officers need to take more care when shooting at vehicles and suspects and need to look at it from a more realistic point of view, i'm sure Samuel will agree that officers are very trigger happy and the amount of officers who break these poilicys by shooting vehicles when it is completely unnecessary and shooting unarmed/people who don't pose a threat is insane.

 

[Eviction Notice]

It's quite simple really,

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Tries to leave = Do not open fire.

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers = Feel free to open fire, as the suspect is clearly posing a threat and is using the vehicle to kill officers.

Suspect have just killed 5 officers in bazaar > the suspect places 4 drug plants in the back of their raptor > the suspect tries to drive away towards city bridge = Do not open fire at the vehicle as he suspect is clearly trying to leave.

You may only open fire on a vehicle if the person driving or the passengers of the vehicle is posing a direct threat to you or others.

More ridiculous than the taser policies when that first came out. No wonder people treat the police department like a laughing stock.

 

[Husky]

Back when I was tfu before the nazi @J dismissed me I was on the same side as @Slayerduck , if there’s people in an active shootout visibly armed in a car they are being gun pointed, if they’ve just shot cops then I’m spraying their car down. We all know they are just going to flank in 30 seconds anyway

 

[Smeris]

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Tries to leave = Do not open fire.

woah good thing i resigned i do this on a daily basis.

I honestly disagree with this, you're with 2 officers at projex when your colleagues just got slaughtered, some carrot in a tesla who is responsible for this decides to drive away past you and you're expected to not do anything? While he doesn't pose a direct threat to you at that moment, i owe you 10$ if he doesn't go to the gas station to flank from there. Seriously, the guy can step out the car at any moment giving him a huge advantage when he needs to shoot. Im not saying when he drives off you need to shoot at every window, but shooting at the tyres wont hurt?


i mean if they're leaving after the shootout has ended for like 5 minutes obviously no, but alot of times someone hops in their car right during the shootout, gunpointing wont work because they accelerate quick enough or "dont see it"

 

[Walker]

If some guy rolls up and shoots 10 people then gets in his car to flee you should totally be able to light up their car.

 

[Imperial Watch]

tfw a guy kills 10 of your colleagues but he is driving away while armed so you cant shoot him
But still, if you know a guy is armed, has hurt people and is trying to escape, capping his ass is acceptable.
If you cannot see/don't know whether he is armed or not, shooting him in the back is kind of questionable, despite past crimes imo

 

[Wewai]

It's quite simple really,

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Tries to leave = Do not open fire.

Suspect have just killed an officer > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers > Gets in to their car > Exits their car and kills more officers = Feel free to open fire, as the suspect is clearly posing a threat and is using the vehicle to kill officers.

Suspect have just killed 5 officers in bazaar > the suspect places 4 drug plants in the back of their raptor > the suspect tries to drive away towards city bridge = Do not open fire at the vehicle as he suspect is clearly trying to leave.

You may only open fire on a vehicle if the person driving or the passengers of the vehicle is posing a direct threat to you or others.

Gets not shot: Flanks 10-180 seconds later
Gets shot: Claims he tried to run away out of fear and calls supervisor/IA/Admins.

Sorry, but I will shot at any car w/ people who shot officers, as its way to dangerous to let them run. Most people will shot no matter what to either denied DNA or "safe" a friend(gun).

 

[Smeris]

but you can not claim self defence of necessity on a suspect actively trying to flee.

But, in 99% of cases a suspect never really flees but just comes back to shoot you again?

 

[Tilin]

See.. We could tase people. But it would conflict with two of the policies of the taser. Hmmmmmmm.