Rule Suggestion (5.5 Robbing the Bank)

[joey]

Suggestion Topic: 5.5 Robbing the Bank
Suggestion Description: Disallow molotovs from being used in bank robberies.

An even better solution would be to have a gameplay mechanic that quickly extinguishes fires inside the bank

Why should this be added?:
Molotovs in the bank is extremely unrealistic, the whole building would likely burn down and kill all the bank robbers.

Using molotovs currently derails the intended gameplay loop of bank robberies

On top of this, banks would have fire suppression systems that stop this.

What negatives could this have?:
Since the addition of vents, Molotoving has become an integral part of successful bank robberies.

Without the use of molotovs, this creates another position in need of holding in the bank.

This could potentially lead to lower criminal success in bank robberies.

I’m fully aware that opinions will be divided on this, maybe this requires a bit more of a whole bank rework to address the root cause of why people started using molotovs in the first place

 

[cosmo]

Totally agree with this, gives the raiders a very easy advantage and it would also disable the bank after the raid for FF to respond, so either this should be added to this rule and/or added to 2.5 +1

 

[Dom/1878]

its already hard enough to rob the bank then the vents got added and we have found something that helps us, i dont see why they should be disallowed maybe just have something that slowly puts the fire out like sprinklers in the bank

 

[exrobite]

anyone who molotovs anything except the vents is actively throwing so its not that bad

 

[Spagety]

Molotoving doesn't really provide a huge advantage for the bank raiders when you consider the fact that Police would have fewer exits to hold thus gaining more overall manpower if they do decide to push out.

 

[joey]

Molotoving doesn't really provide a huge advantage for the bank raiders when you consider the fact that Police would have fewer exits to hold thus gaining more overall manpower if they do decide to push out.

I do agree, this isn't particularly about the benefit it gives to bank robbers, more so the unrealistic nature of it and subverting the intended gameplay loop of the bank robbery

 

[nerd]

I do agree, this isn't particularly about the benefit it gives to bank robbers, more so the unrealistic nature of it and subverting the intended gameplay loop of the bank robbery

how would it be unrealistic to block off an easier entry way for the pd?

 

[joey]

how would it be unrealistic to block off an easier entry way for the pd?

My point is that it is unrealistic to burn yourself alive/die of smoke inhalation/burn the entire bank down

 

[Tilin]

Molotoving the bank helps you early into the bank raid,but screws you down the line once the shutters open, where you lose an easy escape. So I'd say it's balanced and fair.

 

[joey]

Molotoving the bank helps you early into the bank raid,but screws you down the line once the shutters open, where you lose an easy escape. So I'd say it's balanced and fair.

I understand that, however im not particularly talking about balance, more so the realism of it

 

[nerd]

My point is that it is unrealistic to burn yourself alive/die of smoke inhalation/burn the entire bank down

The bearcat isnt realistic to be able to withstand 50. cal anti vehicle shots to the wheels, body, etc.
Casual Pistol cops having armour able to withstand several rifle rounds (i know crim can take multiple body shots too but we are talking about realism here)
^ so in this incase if you add the realism de-buff towards crim, then surely if you want it more realistic you factor in these points too?

 

[joey]

The bearcat isnt realistic to be able to withstand 50. cal anti vehicle shots to the wheels, body, etc.
Casual Pistol cops having armour able to withstand several rifle rounds (i know crim can take multiple body shots too but we are talking about realism here)
^ so in this incase if you add the realism de-buff towards crim, then surely if you want it more realistic you factor in these points too?

Those points are out of scope to this suggestion. I do understand your concerns though

 

[nerd]

Those points are out of scope to this suggestion. I do understand your concerns though

they are perfectly in the scope of what your suggesting, which is realism.
My point is that if you have issues with criminals doing things "unrealistically" (molotoving extra entry ways for the pd), then you should also have issues with the pd having unrealistic factors too.
the server doesnt need to be hyper-realistic. People are playing to have fun.

 

[joey]

they are perfectly in the scope of what your suggesting, which is realism.
My point is that if you have issues with criminals doing things "unrealistically" (molotoving extra entry ways for the pd), then you should also have issues with the pd having unrealistic factors too.
the server doesnt need to be hyper-realistic. People are playing to have fun.

Okay you do have a point! I was only focusing on this, I did however mention that this would be a balancing change!

-sorry for the half post and edit, my phone died

 

[Jorgos]

fairs molotov's need more purpose anyway

 

[money]

I think it's just necessary to allow sewer exits to be opened from outside (after X time) so the bank raids don't last forever and it allows police to push when pre-vault is bricked by fire.

 

[miss piggy]

I’d say at least limit the Molotovs to at max 2 per bank raid. i have noticed people using two before

 

[Tilin]

The bearcat isnt realistic to be able to withstand 50. cal anti vehicle shots to the wheels, body, etc.

Ironically this is was one of the requirements for the production of Lenco Bearcats. This is besides the original suggestion, but it should realistically be able to tank more shots than it does. An AK should do nothing more but tickle it. A 50 cal would need to take much more shots in the same area to damage it.

How this does relate to the suggestion: Not everything has to be realistic. Nice gameplay is enough. So whilst the Bearcat should be bullet proof, we know the SWAT van was horrid for crims when it appeared in a shootout.

 

[Clarky]

I do agree, this isn't particularly about the benefit it gives to bank robbers, more so the unrealistic nature of it and subverting the intended gameplay loop of the bank robbery

Why would you want every bank raid to be the same essentially when this creates a different way of dealing with the same scenario you are familiar with, if anything might benefit the cops more since there are less exits for the crime to utilise. We shouldn’t just go around preventing people from innovating and having creative ways of raiding the bank because it’s “subverting the intended gameplay loop”, that just sounds like you want to just disallow something that isn’t even remotely broken/unbalanced as aforementioned because you’re not keen on the play style by the defenders under the sudden guise of ‘unrealism’ (what makes it actually unrealistic? it’s a bank robbery..)

 

[Exnem]

Anything realism oriented needs to not be inconvenient, and frankly it's incredibly inconvenient that you can only approach a situation in a handful of ways. Molotovs add an unpredictable factor to the bank robbery alongside its chaos. It's entirely up to the bank robbers if they want to shoot themselves in the foot and force themselves to only be able to escape in one of 2 or 3 different routes instead of all of them. It's a tradeoff that has worked against several bank raiders in the past.

Realism should almost never be the argument when it comes to gameplay balance and fun factor, because since when has total realism been fun in PvP? If we were being realistic, fire would suck the air out of the room, overheat the shit out of you, melt your skin and if not in proximity, kill you hours or days after exposure to the smoke you've been inhaling for the last couple of in-game hours while you were robbing the place. Fire does a lot more than you think, and it spreads a lot faster than it does in-game. Two minutes is all it needs from an ember to a full on flame to engulf an entire wood-lined room.

The server, in my opinion right now, is plagued by on-the-rails experiences. Every raid, shootout and conflict all boil down to the same methods and approaches. Being able to use molotovs for something other than body burning or the mythically rare and justified revenge molly is insanely refreshing. A lot of the asymmetric PvP died with V5 and its map quirks that allowed people to climb into places that you'd realistically be able to get to, based entirely on a skill check like the Projex warehouse roof. Jump-climb past the scrapyard fence and you could flank the hell out of the cops. Many complained, but it wasn't all that unrealistic.

At the end of the day, this suggestion aims to suck the soul out of PvP even further, even if that's not what you intended. Hard no from me.