Seasoned player Punishments are too harsh

[MalekIsWeird]

Im keeping it as short and simple as I can, then anybody can comment anything to let me know if they agree.

Personally I want to first state that when rules are broken punishments should ALWAYS be delivered accordingly, that said, just because the server is getting a consistent 128 players does not make it reasonable to go from banning people for a week or a few days to now not only me but many others being offed for months or years. I disagree with the idea that the ban lengths (the way they are now) will make anybody better. I believe these crazy ban lengths are treating the seasoned players too harshly which will eventually cause many to quit and hate perp forever because eventually they're bound to flip the table.

Something needs to change in my opinion and in many other peoples' opinions. Mistakes happen and even the veterans can make errors, banning them to such a degree is exactly why they're so out of touch when they're back as well as why they're most likely to either completely quit or come back then mess up again.

 

[blobvis 2.0]

It appears you have found the truth about the perpheads staff team. IT IS NOT TOO LATE TO RUN, RUN WHILE U CAN, RUN MALEK RUNNNN, dont look back it won't be pretty, RUUUUNNNN

 

[Ezza]

IMO;

If your a "seasoned" player you should be aware of the rules better then newer players.

Therefore if you break the rules with for example a month playtime on the server you deserve a bigger punishment as you have played alot longer then newer players and should have learned the rules through roleplay scenarios and reading them.

 

[Ellie]

What are you basing this on? I mean if we get some more context on your data we mught be able to shed some light on it.

And how would you 'fix' this 'problem'?

 

[MalekIsWeird]

IMO;

If your a "seasoned" player you should be aware of the rules better then newer players.

Therefore if you break the rules with for example a month playtime on the server you deserve a bigger punishment as you have played alot longer then newer players and should have learned the rules through roleplay scenarios and reading them.

I fully understand you point brother.

I've heard many times before, the issue isn't that the expectation compared to a new player is higher. It's that since the server has gotten 128 players, the seasoned players are expected from there on to be perfect. No matter how much of a veteran you are you're bound to mess up because you're human! This is why people keep breaking rules and repeating the same infraction. They're taken out of the server for months or years and expected to come back knowing how to follow rules of a game that they haven't played for months and years.

Most of them apologize for what they did, they wish they can apologize instantly so they can continue enjoying perp, some take time to realize so then they apologize after having realized what they did. Even then sometimes it's accepted, other times it's denied. If they're lucky enough to have a forgiving staff member (granted they were honest in their apology) they're still taken out for months which solves nothing except giving them that glimpse of hope which in the end is logically pointless. This is due to the core root issue of how out of touch they are paired with the unrealistic expectation level that they must never break the rules they haven't had to follow for that length of time in which they were made to not touch the server for. Currently making me believe that this is why this system is flawed in my opinion along with many other peoples' opinions as well as why many people either quit.

 

[Lelios1]

You keep mentioning lengthy bans from seasoned players and that other people share the same opinion yet you don't provide any examples on this. I'm sure staff take into account, not only how much time you've spent on the server, but also how many previous bans and warnings you've gotten (and how similar they are to what you did), how you tend to behave in general / on the sit / when you broke the rule in question, how on purpose you breaking the rule was etc.
If you do get banned for something minor for a long amount of time, that you believe is very excessive, that's where a staff complaint can come in handy.

 

[SamSN]

@Lelios1 sums this up perfectly, your playtime isn't the only consideration and it's not even considered crazy important on it's own.
When you're being issued a ban, your recent history, your attitude towards your actions as well as generally, and what you did are taken into consideration much more heavily than just your playtime.

In your case specifically, the reason you keep getting very long bans is because you keep breaking the same or very similar rules again and again, each time only within a short period of your last ban expiring.

If players keep breaking rules of course their punishment lengths are going to continually increase; if you get banned and then return just to keep breaking the same rules, clearly the ban has been ignored and isn't teaching you that you need to follow the rules, as such we issue a longer ban as that will both give you more time to consider your actions as well as give the server a break from someone that we know is continually breaking rules, therefore easing the workload of the staff team and easing the annoyance of players on the server that have to deal with them breaking rules.

We as a team are not increasing ban lengths as a result of there being a higher player count, your continued actions are resulting in your lengthy bans not the players around you.

 

[avirex24]

No matter what, If you are a new player, veteran or seasoned player, you should always make sure your knowledge of the rules are always on point.
I only see longer bans on players that already have a lot of bans on their account. I never saw a player with an long ban for example 3.4 if they did it the first time.
If someone keeps breaking rules and doesnt get familiar with the rules during their ban, I dont see a problem with an longer ban. These types of player just ruin everybodys experience over and over again.

I totaly disagree with your point and sometimes the bans should be even longer!

 

[MalekIsWeird]

What are you basing this on? I mean if we get some more context on your data we mught be able to shed some light on it.

And how would you 'fix' this 'problem'?

My basis for this issue is a logical basis. I don't believe bringing my record into it as if I am arguing for my self solely here will prove or disprove anything.

Even if any loss is refunded to the victim and being well behaved in a sit is shown, the result is usually never reduced to what I would say is a reasonable amount of time to understand one's mistake (given it is an extremely common rule broken at hand) then come back feeling the punch from not getting to play so they're still in touch with the game whilst receiving the message that they messed up. Instead people are gone for a week minimum regularly, if not weeks or months. Now that player who just came back is gone for a long time or possibly forever.

I disagree with the current method. If I had to answer you instantly I'd approximately say 1 week should be a maximum for punishing any players for a repeated breakage of 2.5 or 3.4. @avirex24 missed my point that I explained. Logically and simply put, the loss on the victim is never equal to the repeated torturous cycle that the rule-breaker has to endure (given they are sincere in their attempt to improve) with little to no hope of recovering since after any longer than that and they're too out of touch to know how to follow the game they were just exiled from for such a long period.

 

[avirex24]

I disagree with the current method. If I had to answer you instantly I'd approximately say 1 week should be a maximum for punishing any players for a repeated breakage of 2.5 or 3.4. @avirex24 missed my point that I explained. Logically and simply put, the loss on the victim is never equal to the repeated torturous cycle that the rule-breaker has to endure (given they are sincere in their attempt to improve) with little to no hope of recovering since after any longer than that and they're too out of touch to know how to follow the game they were just exiled from for such a long period.

I dont get your point.
There are just two ways to play the game, first follow the server rules and if thats to hard go the second way and break rules and get banned.
Its that simple, its just like reallife, you have basic defined rules that you have to follow, and if you are not capeable following the rules then you are not supposed to be part of the society.


I have an tip for everyone that plays here, if you dont want to get banned, just follow the rules!

 

[travis]

My basis for this issue is a logical basis. I don't believe bringing my record into it as if I am arguing for my self solely here will prove or disprove anything.

Even if any loss is refunded to the victim and being well behaved in a sit is shown, the result is usually never reduced to what I would say is a reasonable amount of time to understand one's mistake (given it is an extremely common rule broken at hand) then come back feeling the punch from not getting to play so they're still in touch with the game whilst receiving the message that they messed up. Instead people are gone for a week minimum regularly, if not weeks or months. Now that player who just came back is gone for a long time or possibly forever.

I disagree with the current method. If I had to answer you instantly I'd approximately say 1 week should be a maximum for punishing any players for a repeated breakage of 2.5 or 3.4. @avirex24 missed my point that I explained. Logically and simply put, the loss on the victim is never equal to the repeated torturous cycle that the rule-breaker has to endure (given they are sincere in their attempt to improve) with little to no hope of recovering since after any longer than that and they're too out of touch to know how to follow the game they were just exiled from for such a long period.

The logic you use is frankly illogical. Why would we cap ban lengths for 3.4 and 2.5? Wouldn't that just encourage people to break those rules and not really care because they can take a break for a week and come back to do the exact same thing, with malicious intent? No one and I repeat NO ONE is banned for weeks or months without a) Having broken the rule in question prior multiple times b) A severe rule break occurring (Mass RDM) or blowing up multiple cars for no reason or finally c) The person reported has a deplorable attitude. If you're too "out of touch" to follow simple rules after returning from a ban then do you really deserve to keep playing? Should you be considered competent enough to follow the rules? If people are truly sincere in their attempt to improve then they'd read the rule, understand where they went wrong, and ask about how this can be avoided in the future. It's all simple really, the rules are in place to provide a fair environment where players can enjoy playing. If you break them constantly then you shouldn't be allowed to continue playing and being distruptive.

 

[213]

“Even if any loss is refunded to the victim and being well behaved in a sit is shown, the result is usually never reduced to what I would say is a reasonable amount of time to understand one's mistake”

This will only encourage people to break rules if they know they can get away from harsh punishments by apologizing or returning items in the event they are caught. Ban lengths are determined by the severity of rule violation(s), previous ban/warning history, how the player conduct themselves, as well as how experienced they are on the server. Although there is no set time of ban lengths for each rule violation, it is up to the staff members discretion. If a person feels they have been banned for an excessive amount of time or that a warning was unwarranted, they can appeal/dispute it or make a staff complaint on the forums.

How would you deal with a player who has an atrocious ban history for the same rule violations?

“repeated torturous cycle that the rule-breaker has to endure (given they are sincere in their attempt to improve) with little to no hope of recovering since after any longer than that and they're too out of touch to know how to follow the game they were just exiled from for such a long period.”

As an experienced player, you should know the rules better than most people. It’s highly unlikely that someone will forget the rules after a month ban. Players should take the time to reflect on their actions and attempt to fully understand the rules during this time.

Regardless of whether you are a brand new player or an experienced member of the community, you are expected to know and follow the rules at all times. Ignorance is not an acceptable reason for violating the rules.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

You keep mentioning lengthy bans from seasoned players and that other people share the same opinion yet you don't provide any examples on this. I'm sure staff take into account, not only how much time you've spent on the server, but also how many previous bans and warnings you've gotten (and how similar they are to what you did), how you tend to behave in general / on the sit / when you broke the rule in question, how on purpose you breaking the rule was etc.
If you do get banned for something minor for a long amount of time, that you believe is very excessive, that's where a staff complaint can come in handy.

@Lelios1 sums this up perfectly, your playtime isn't the only consideration and it's not even considered crazy important on it's own.
When you're being issued a ban, your recent history, your attitude towards your actions as well as generally, and what you did are taken into consideration much more heavily than just your playtime.

In your case specifically, the reason you keep getting very long bans is because you keep breaking the same or very similar rules again and again, each time only within a short period of your last ban expiring.

If players keep breaking rules of course their punishment lengths are going to continually increase; if you get banned and then return just to keep breaking the same rules, clearly the ban has been ignored and isn't teaching you that you need to follow the rules, as such we issue a longer ban as that will both give you more time to consider your actions as well as give the server a break from someone that we know is continually breaking rules, therefore easing the workload of the staff team and easing the annoyance of players on the server that have to deal with them breaking rules.

We as a team are not increasing ban lengths as a result of there being a higher player count, your continued actions are resulting in your lengthy bans not the players around you.

My logic is explained and my examples are below

Gainaxe example


Here is a 2021 ban, keep in mind this player has a history of 2.5 and 3.4, only 2 days?


Still 2021 for only 3days after repeating that same infraction it only got bumped up a day.


Here it gets bumped up by 11 days in 2022 of march when those rulebreaks were consecutive on the record. Meaning this player has not broken 2.5 in months but his punishment is delivered in an extremely higher rate compared to the last.


Another example which shows an interesting 1 week reduction even though last ban was longer for the same rulebreak so the statement that "you break the same rule your ban is always going to be longer from before." is proven false.


Here I can speak for myself. I killed somebody standing in a shootout who was joining the server.

After then I get 2 weeks for breaking 2.5. Notice how I was unbanned then soon after banned again because the idea that me coming back 2 months later will help me learn not to break the rule completely is false as shown. Both scenarios are completely different in context so both being listed under something as abstract as 2.5 it will never benefit.

Currently this is what happened again. Again totally different reason with different context being punished by that same abstract rule.



I can continue searching for examples and showing more but I believe these two can prove at least 2 things:

1. Bans don't chronologically increase
2. A player who gets banned by a common minor rule will inevitably get banned for it again sooner or later then get off'ed for such a long time that they'll be out of touch so when they come back instead of being less likely to break it, they're either too scared to roleplay or they're more likely to break it.
3. Rules which are minor and commonly broken being a reason to ban a player for a longer time than 1 week each time a different situation occurs is enough proof to show that torturous cycle exists as well as that the rule isn't just simply "being broken over and over purposefully," but that the many abstractions which exist within it will most likely lead to that out-of-touch returning player to eventually break that same rule again.

 

[Bnjemann]

Take it from the perspective of the newer players who fall victim to experienced players bending or breaking rules to their advantage, thinking that it’s okay, And then the behaviour exhibited by that player becomes more common.

I don’t want to waste my time constantly dealing with the same person every few days for the same reasons and we aren’t paid enough to put up with that shit from people (We aren’t paid at all). You cannot convince me for a split second that you wouldn’t feel the same way as I do if you were a moderator.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

The logic you use is frankly illogical. Why would we cap ban lengths for 3.4 and 2.5? Wouldn't that just encourage people to break those rules and not really care because they can take a break for a week and come back to do the exact same thing, with malicious intent? No one and I repeat NO ONE is banned for weeks or months without a) Having broken the rule in question prior multiple times b) A severe rule break occurring (Mass RDM) or blowing up multiple cars for no reason or finally c) The person reported has a deplorable attitude. If you're too "out of touch" to follow simple rules after returning from a ban then do you really deserve to keep playing? Should you be considered competent enough to follow the rules? If people are truly sincere in their attempt to improve then they'd read the rule, understand where they went wrong, and ask about how this can be avoided in the future. It's all simple really, the rules are in place to provide a fair environment where players can enjoy playing. If you break them constantly then you shouldn't be allowed to continue playing and being distruptive.

You said it yourself, Malicious intent, that is the keyword which I am saying defines whether that repeated breakage is due to the many abstractions behind each context given to each situation that results in those commonly broken rules to being broken OR that the player had been gone for long enough that, even with their level of understanding, they are more prone to failing to comply with that same rule due to the umbrella of ways as well as the hardship in having somebody on standby to "ask about how this can be avoided," when most rulebreaks that occur under these abstract rules are different in context if they're non-malicious. It can be broken again and again even by a non-malicious player. I don't agree that these common rules are as straight forward and "simple" as you make them out to be. I think what's extremely simple is to tell, even if a player has an extreme prior history of breaking said rule, that they're strongly trying to improve and that they have no malicious intent. Currently your argument is ignoring the fact that people can mess up and break these abstract and common rules no matter how much of a veteran or who they are.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

You said it yourself, Malicious intent, that is the keyword which I am saying defines whether that repeated breakage is due to the many abstractions behind each context given to each situation that results in those commonly broken rules to being broken OR that the player had been gone for long enough that, even with their level of understanding, they are more prone to failing to comply with that same rule due to the umbrella of ways as well as the hardship in having somebody on standby to "ask about how this can be avoided," when most rulebreaks that occur under these abstract rules are different in context if they're non-malicious. It can be broken again and again even by a non-malicious player. I don't agree that these common rules are as straight forward and "simple" as you make them out to be. I think what's extremely simple is to tell, even if a player has an extreme prior history of breaking said rule, that they're strongly trying to improve and that they have no malicious intent. Currently your argument is ignoring the fact that people can mess up and break these abstract and common rules no matter how much of a veteran or who they are.

@Bnej I believe Malicious Intent is a crucial detail to which type of player I am speaking up for here. Malicious intent can be shown by refusing to apologize, disrespectful attitude when confronted, lack of remorse for actions before being informed of the punishment but after being told the rule was broken as well as a multitude of other things.

If I was a moderator I agree that banning for a long time those who are malicious is agreed upon by everybody. What I don't agree on is treating everyone like they're malicious in this topic.

 

[Niko]

Just stop breaking the rules 4head

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Just stop breaking the rules 4head

Me after you said this

 

[Jack Bruhross]

Just stop breaking the rules 4head

easier said than done

 

[Niko]

easier said than done

Idk man I am managing, I can teach you sometime