Seasoned player Punishments are too harsh

[KeiwaM]

This you?

View attachment 15480

This is the ACTUAL warning, from 2014

 

[MalekIsWeird]

This is the ACTUAL warning, from 2014

View attachment 15481

 

[Dank]

I am debating those who really are looking for answers. Telling somebody you disagree and stating you take on it then leaving completely doesn't prove you won it just means you quit having a discussion.


Again, My record will not prove anything because that assumes I am arguing for myself. I am standing up for all seasoned players who share my opinion and agree with me as they have to struggle with the current problems in ban lengths. I provided numerous examples and numerous explanations to many people in this thread that this problem we're discussing affects way more people than just me.

Wrong, You are using your own bans as an example, Hence they are valid to be used as arguments.

2.5 is nothing but context-based. Being "excessively negative," can be anything from insulting somebody and making them cry, burning a persons planters, exploding a bomb in peoples doors to break their defenses, finishing an unconscious player off with a bat without any reason to, accidentally killing a player who was unarmed in a raid, having a Molotov fire spread to cars and causing many explosions and many more.

2.5 is an umbrella rule with infinite possibilities for it to be broken all in different ways due to it's abstract nature based on every single scenario given the context.

I think you are literally stating reasons why 2.5 is not context based. Realistically speaking, You can figure out yourself fires will blow up cars. There is no world where you could not have thought of that. Proving my point some people take actions before actually thinking. Accidently killing someone in a raid, Interesting, Your ban is for killing someone who has yet to join. That is no accidental at all. That is purely shooting them with no further benefit to you at all.

This is a strawman fallacy and formal fallacy argument which lacks scrutiny:
Attacking me by not only falsely assuming; not just one; but all 3 of my bans were "nearly the same thing and malicious." Arguing that just because one of my bans includes a "KOS," that I had full malicious intent when you were neither the victim or the staff or me; whether it was malicious or not you don't know that for a fact; yet your argument is worded in a cocky way as if you do.

Your statement contradicts the staff you say "debunked me," because some themselves said that "nobody can tell the true intention of somebody." It also proves your take lacks scrutiny in understanding the deeper layers of what goes on in how staff can discover whether a player was malicious or genuinely making a misjudgment as well the player's struggle in trying to be better after returning from months only to be off'ed for more after making a misjudgment regarding an abstract rule.

I do know as I can trust that staff members ban you with a full understanding of the situation, and as the staff member put it in the ban reason, I shall take it as factual.
Further I actually speak with people, this includes the ones who have alot of bans, and they mostly mention the same thing. They hadn't thought about their actions.

You are using your own bans as an example yet 'it's about everyone'. This whole thread is just you defending your own reckless and unthought actions with the reasoning that staff is not consistent.

And lets be real, As @Efan and @KeiwaM staff are like roses these days, People got banned a few years ago for beating a NPC with a baseball bat. Bans are extremely flexible already and I would argue that they could be longer as they were before.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Wrong, You are using your own bans as an example, Hence they are valid to be used as arguments.

I provided examples of a multitude of bans not only just mine so your statement is technically correct alone yet in context of what you were saying it is wrong because I am not the subject matter. The subject matter is the logic of how bans are handed out.

I think you are literally stating reasons why 2.5 is not context based. Realistically speaking, You can figure out yourself fires will blow up cars. There is no world where you could not have thought of that. Proving my point some people take actions before actually thinking. Accidently killing someone in a raid, Interesting, Your ban is for killing someone who has yet to join. That is no accidental at all. That is purely shooting them with no further benefit to you at all.

You're proving my point in that your argument lacks scrutiny.
I ask you how does
"insulting somebody and making them cry" and "burning planters." Don't involve the same context whatsoever yet they fall under 2.5. A player can throw a molotov to burn bodies in a slums apartment and the fire accidentally spreads to an unrelated planter financially affecting the uninvolved player in which that was an honest misjudgment then another player can flat out shoot some guy for insulting him but they're both considered 2.5 given the context which is used by staff every time to determine what happened. This is not only backed by me but any staff you ask will tell you they take many things into consideration when punishing players which is by definition CONTEXT.

It's the same with the cars, I threw a molotov onto the bodies (not on the car). However the fire spread from the body to car then to another and another with my intention being only to burn DNA to preserve my freedom as it was evident in the video I aimed for the bodies. Pair that with all the signals I showed to the staff that I was genuine in my actions where I did not mean to hurt anybody or break the rule, If the staff who handled it understood and was supportive which evidently was helpful, Who are you to speak about it without the slightest knowledge of what happened besides a ban reason.

I do know as I can trust that staff members ban you with a full understanding of the situation, and as the staff member put it in the ban reason, I shall take it as factual.
Further I actually speak with people, this includes the ones who have alot of bans, and they mostly mention the same thing. They hadn't thought about their actions.

Your logic is so illogical in this statement. You use a formal fallacy of not having enough scrutiny to see what happened beneath the ban reason as well as that you literally state "as the staff member put it in the ban reason, I shall take it as factual," which is a text book example of the logical fallacy of argument from authority / appeal to authority. This is not only illogical and wrong, it is also contradictory to the very existence of Punishment Disputes being a feature which shows your argument's disconnected understanding with how the server staff operate. If the statement was a fact and it shall be taken as a fact then no disputes should be available to begin with yet they are so you're not making any sense at all here in regards to reality.

I speak with people as well. Just because a few people said something doesn't mean you are free to interpret it in a way to fit your narrative in this argument where you can generalize all rule-breakers as the same. Again, lacking scrutiny by generalizing.

You are using your own bans as an example yet 'it's about everyone'. This whole thread is just you defending your own reckless and unthought actions with the reasoning that staff is not consistent.

My bans are amongst many other peoples' experiences. I also have connections with a multitude of people who are in agreeance with me over this topic or have quit the perpheads community then told me about how they feel this way. I am not alone on this but you seem to strongly fail to realize this fact.

And lets be real, As @Efan and @KeiwaM staff are like roses these days, People got banned a few years ago for beating a NPC with a baseball bat. Bans are extremely flexible already and I would argue that they could be longer as they were before.

Ignorance is bliss so if your take is to say that off'ing a player like how they used to in 2015 (which I was not around for) will improve the server's state. It sounds like not only will me, and the many people who agree with me on this explicit topic, disagree with you. I assume many others will also disagree (staff included) due to the radical extremist method of trying to fix a player which is even now unsupportive so to ban them for longer will only worsen the situation causing more good players to quit.

 

[Sneaky]

My basis for this issue is a logical basis. I don't believe bringing my record into it as if I am arguing for my self solely here will prove or disprove anything.

Even if any loss is refunded to the victim and being well behaved in a sit is shown, the result is usually never reduced to what I would say is a reasonable amount of time to understand one's mistake (given it is an extremely common rule broken at hand) then come back feeling the punch from not getting to play so they're still in touch with the game whilst receiving the message that they messed up. Instead people are gone for a week minimum regularly, if not weeks or months. Now that player who just came back is gone for a long time or possibly forever.

I disagree with the current method. If I had to answer you instantly I'd approximately say 1 week should be a maximum for punishing any players for a repeated breakage of 2.5 or 3.4. @avirex24 missed my point that I explained. Logically and simply put, the loss on the victim is never equal to the repeated torturous cycle that the rule-breaker has to endure (given they are sincere in their attempt to improve) with little to no hope of recovering since after any longer than that and they're too out of touch to know how to follow the game they were just exiled from for such a long period.

My friend, if you would work like me, and only play PERP mostly on the weekends, i wouldn't give a single fuck about the week ban. I wouldn't play for a week anyway, thus far, the punishment wouldn't really affect me. You do understand that breaking 2.5 and 3.4 are one of the most fundamental rules and breaking them is one of the most annoying things ever. They're the most RP breaking rules.


While i do agree that there is a very large diffrence in how bans are issued, where one massRDMer gets 2 weeks and the other 6 months, i do believe bans are issues fairly and set accordingly to what happened. Some rules are so extremely easy to not break, yet people break them dozens of times either out of recklessness or lack of giving a fuck. Im sure if you break a rule by mistake, be apologetic and understanding in your admin sit about it, you'd get nicer treatment then alt+F4ing or just not saying anything.

also clearly a skill issue nice crosshair bro

 

[GSOLAR]

Honestly bro, I think ur a cool dude but I disagree with this post. I consider myself a relatively seasoned player too. Played since 2017. Havent had a single ban on my record so far. Its not that hard to follow the rules.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

My friend, if you would work like me, and only play PERP mostly on the weekends, i wouldn't give a single fuck about the week ban. I wouldn't play for a week anyway, thus far, the punishment wouldn't really affect me. You do understand that breaking 2.5 and 3.4 are one of the most fundamental rules and breaking them is one of the most annoying things ever. They're the most RP breaking rules.


While i do agree that there is a very large diffrence in how bans are issued, where one massRDMer gets 2 weeks and the other 6 months, i do believe bans are issues fairly and set accordingly to what happened. Some rules are so extremely easy to not break, yet people break them dozens of times either out of recklessness or lack of giving a fuck. Im sure if you break a rule by mistake, be apologetic and understanding in your admin sit about it, you'd get nicer treatment then alt+F4ing or just not saying anything.

Firstly personal life choices in working or not is something I am keeping to my self. As for the not caring about a ban, I believe that doesn't help at all. If I get banned I am positive that the point of the ban is to influence that player to take time off and think of what they did wrong instead of forget about perpheads.

I do agree that 3.4 and 2.5 are very "fundamental," but at the same time they're VERY abstract and work as an umbrella to encompass many things. This makes them not so easy to follow since it's night and day between a simple rule like NLR or Cheating. Just don't go back and don't cheat are easy to do. With 2.5 and 3.4 you can break them in more than one way so learning from your prior ban all you would now know more of is to not do that same exact move, which is something players want to improve do, yet they are hit with longer ban periods when they fall into another pit of accidentally breaking that rule with different context surrounding the breakage of the same rule. Currently, They're gone for weeks or months due to the repeated offense even if it was an honest mistake.

This is where me and many others disagree with the current harshness of bans as a player is not encouraged or supported to improve if they're off'ed for longer periods for any repeated offense regardless of their attempts to learn. I am passionate about my solution, which would be to understand the rule-breaker and approximately leave them with 1 week maximum to think what they did. Banning them for months or weeks will cause:

1. Their relationship to worsen with the server
2. Possibly quitting
3. Feelings of being unsupported
4. Not brainstorm to try and understand, like they do when on the server since people have a life outside the server, in an attempt to understand the abstractions of the umbrella rule they struggle with as they repeat it on accidental occassions.
5.Give false hope that when they're unbanned they will be better off, when in reality all that does is reduce the time for that ticking time bomb to go off as soon as they're unbanned. They will eventually mistakenly break that same umbrella rule through another abstract way which was totally an honest misjudgment.

nice crosshair bro

May God bless u brother <3

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Honestly bro, I think ur a cool dude but I disagree with this post.

It's ok to disagree.

I consider myself a relatively seasoned player too. Played since 2017. Havent had a single ban on my record so far. Its not that hard to follow the rules.

Activity, play style, play time, rule understanding, roleplay preference, relationships, connections, status and more things will determine if you get yourself banned as well as how long you end up banned for.

You being an exception does not necessarily make the argument non-existent.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

So Mr. @Dank since we can discuss my actions, It's only equally fair to discuss yours to help us seek the truth.

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/C6rtiPpTMEqju/7mfzQxivI4f7?invite=cr-MSxaT0ssNDA0MTMyOTks

Were your actions malicious since it evidently led to your death?
In this situation specifically the mugger had a gun at your head. Raising your gun about 5 seconds after being ordered to put your hands up by a guy who can and did headshot you in a second is legitimate suicide mate.

Mr.@Liam , How does this make you feel?

 

[Dank]

So Mr. @Dank since we can discuss my actions, It's only equally fair to discuss yours to help us seek the truth.

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/C6rtiPpTMEqju/7mfzQxivI4f7?invite=cr-MSxaT0ssNDA0MTMyOTks

Were your actions malicious since it evidently led to your death?
In this situation specifically the mugger had a gun at your head. Raising your gun about 5 seconds after being ordered to put your hands up by a guy who can and did headshot you in a second is legitimate suicide mate.

Mr.@Liam , How does this make you feel?

Have you looked at my right hand? Gunpoint isn’t relevant if you are visibly armed…. Might wanna read up on those rules before making stupid comments lmao

 

[Collier]

So Mr. @Dank since we can discuss my actions, It's only equally fair to discuss yours to help us seek the truth.

https://medal.tv/games/garrys-mod/clips/C6rtiPpTMEqju/7mfzQxivI4f7?invite=cr-MSxaT0ssNDA0MTMyOTks

Were your actions malicious since it evidently led to your death?
In this situation specifically the mugger had a gun at your head. Raising your gun about 5 seconds after being ordered to put your hands up by a guy who can and did headshot you in a second is legitimate suicide mate.

Mr.@Liam , How does this make you feel?

Where do you get off randomly calling out random individuals demanding they justify their actions to you? Who the hell are you to do something like this? It's fairly obvious that both individuals in this clip were AFK or tabbed out. And as Dank has already correctly pointed out, if you have a gun in passive stance, you can raise it at individuals who are trying to gunpoint you. The guy in the clip could have just shot them both instantly if he wanted to

 

[Inchs]

The rules are so stupidly easy to follow, as a new player it's easy to make the mistakes as I did and as most people did, but since then majority of the rules I've broken have been on purpose and if you have been here for more then a few months you should know better.

If you are still breaking rules with months of playtime you have to seriously be trying to.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Where do you get off randomly calling out random individuals demanding they justify their actions to you? Who the hell are you to do something like this? It's fairly obvious that both individuals in this clip were AFK or tabbed out. And as Dank has already correctly pointed out, if you have a gun in passive stance, you can raise it at individuals who are trying to gunpoint you. The guy in the clip could have just shot them both instantly if he wanted to

It's interesting how you seem to be offended by me simply asking to discuss @Dank 's actions but it's totally fine for him to discuss with me my actions when both can be used in this debate.

Also you made a false claim stating I ""demanded him to justify his actions"? When did I ask him to justify it?

Even if the gun is in his hand. I don't believe raising your weapon, taking aim and finally shooting a perfect headshot is a necessary risk when the gunpointer has his already aimed (finger on the trigger) at point blank range. This situation is just as close to 3.4 than running from a cop who is gun pointing you is. The logic behind the justification seems to be that he will take down the shooter! or he will dodge bullets and not get shot because it's a cop! This scenario, given the context, clearly shows a player failing to surrender in a situation he found himself that had unrealistic likelihood of survival if he was retaliate but he took that Unnecessary Risk. He died because of it, failing to Stay Alive.

Have you looked at my right hand? Gunpoint isn’t relevant if you are visibly armed…. Might wanna read up on those rules before making stupid comments lmao

I didn't disrespect you so I fail to understand why you're insulting me? I did the same thing you did which is bring your personal choices into the discussion.

The scenario is clearly a suicide as I explained to Collier above. Please try to control your emotions, I expected us to be able to discuss serious things without being toxic.

The rules are so stupidly easy to follow, as a new player it's easy to make the mistakes as I did and as most people did, but since then majority of the rules I've broken have been on purpose and if you have been here for more then a few months you should know better.

you contradict your self in the first sentence.

How are all the rules "stupidly easy to follow" but there is still rules you broke on accident. You also mention a "few months," but before those few months while after losing your "new player" title what happens then? Are you still a new player or are you stuck in limbo?

I think I don't understand that segment of your argument as it lacks detail.

If you are still breaking rules with months of playtime you have to seriously be trying to.

Interesting.... but baseless claim, people can always accidentally break rules. All of us are human, we have a root flaw of being imperfect therefore when we make honest misjudgments we should not be expected to be perfect or never break that rule or never break anything similar when all of that is something which is possible in anybody.

 

[Mina]

meeeoooowwww
@walnash @Mage @doge

 

[walnash]

meeeoooowwww
@walnash @Mage @doge

mraaaaaaaaaaaow

 

[Dank]

It's interesting how you seem to be offended by me simply asking to discuss @Dank 's actions but it's totally fine for him to discuss with me my actions when both can be used in this debate.

Also you made a false claim stating I ""demanded him to justify his actions"? When did I ask him to justify it?

Even if the gun is in his hand. I don't believe raising your weapon, taking aim and finally shooting a perfect headshot is a necessary risk when the gunpointer has his already aimed (finger on the trigger) at point blank range. This situation is just as close to 3.4 than running from a cop who is gun pointing you is. The logic behind the justification seems to be that he will take down the shooter! or he will dodge bullets and not get shot because it's a cop! This scenario, given the context, clearly shows a player failing to surrender in a situation he found himself that had unrealistic likelihood of survival if he was retaliate but he took that Unnecessary Risk. He died because of it, failing to Stay Alive.


I didn't disrespect you so I fail to understand why you're insulting me? I did the same thing you did which is bring your personal choices into the discussion.

The scenario is clearly a suicide as I explained to Collier above. Please try to control your emotions, I expected us to be able to discuss serious things without being toxic.



you contradict your self in the first sentence.

How are all the rules "stupidly easy to follow" but there is still rules you broke on accident. You also mention a "few months," but before those few months while after losing your "new player" title what happens then? Are you still a new player or are you stuck in limbo?

I think I don't understand that segment of your argument as it lacks detail.

Interesting.... but baseless claim, people can always accidentally break rules. All of us are human, we have a root flaw of being imperfect therefore when we make honest misjudgments we should not be expected to be perfect or never break that rule or never break anything similar when all of that is something which is possible in anybody.

I’m a bit confused you are trying to debate something which everyone knows is within the rules. I don’t like you saying you control our emotions when you bring slanderous lacklustre comments in here thinking you are doing something.

If anything this proves you yourself are grasping at straws at anything to throw at us for this joke of a thread

 

[Acerius]