Police Suggestion [Withdrawn] Automatic warrants for Murder of a PO

[northnortheast]

NOTE: Max has brought up a very good point here so I have decided to rescind this suggestion as I can't think of a reasonable solution.

Brief description of idea: Issue an automatic warrant for Murder of a Police Officer when DNA is uploaded of someone finishing them off, similar to how automatic warrants for bank robbery are put in effect.

What benefits would this idea have for the department: Allows officers to keep track of murder suspects and raid their properties in the 75% of situations where a corporal+ is not online.

What potential negatives could this have for the department: None that I can see. People with DNA having killed an officer are already regarded as murder suspects.

Other additions: maybe give pd tactical a-10 airstrike for use when there are barricaded suspects

 

[Tomo]

what if it turns out the murder was accidental and a medic is so clueless he uploads it

then u cant even remove the warrant

 

[Jimmy]

is this a bad joke

 

[Clarky]

Tbh we do need an alternative system to placing warrants when there are no supervisors online (this has happened way too much recently), I don't want to have to do OR's every month just to have a DNA tool and set warrant so forcing people to become a rank clearly isn't a friendly way of mitigating this

The only solution I can see to this is only warranting the person that finishes off an officer, as accidents can happen such as running them over with a car so it wouldn't be very fair to warrant someone on that basis.

 

[blobvis 2.0]

how about if no srg is on and a medic dna's a body which was wrong and the warrant stays up and no srg shows up for quite a while and the person is stuck either to go to jail for a situation dealt with or get raided about 5x by new oncoming officers?

how about a jailwalker on the middle of the highway, you call it in and still get a warrant?

this idea is very stupid and brings more negative than positive

 

[Bnjemann]

You can just have a medic upload DNA and act on what the DMA evidence says, you do know that right? All not having a warrant does is allow them to join a job (which doesn’t stop you acting on that information from the DNA, Just makes them easier to find) and doesnt let you raid their property without TFU (which is again something you shouldn’t do).

 

[3izu]

This is pointless because it get rids of the realism of the investigation. Also just makes SGTs+ and medics useless. Also like tomo said, sometimes cops die accidentally to players for instance cops running in the intersection, accidentally shooting a cop while defending your house.

 

[Clarky]

You can just have a medic upload DNA and act on what the DMA evidence says, you do know that right?

And as for finding out their properties, vehicles? This simply isn't feasible and expecting people to read the latest is just a shit fest in itself when it's not sorted.

 

[Max]

this is genius, this would result in so many excuses to kos. I couldn't ask for a better change. thank you

 

[northnortheast]

The only solution I can see to this is only warranting the person that finishes off an officer, as accidents can happen such as running them over with a car so it wouldn't be very fair to warrant someone on that basis.

that was kinda the implication but it looks like that's been lost on most people so i'll clarify it

how about if no srg is on and a medic dna's a body which was wrong and the warrant stays up and no srg shows up for quite a while and the person is stuck either to go to jail for a situation dealt with or get raided about 5x by new oncoming officers?

wtf is a 'body which was wrong'? what, someone 'died illegally'? if an officer is killed in self defense by a citizen that citizen is still going to be arrested because of the DNA if nobody witnessed it, the only difference is that that citizen then makes an IA against the officer in question. this is constant regardless of a warrant.

murder was accidental

as said above i wasnt clear but this should be when it is 100% clear that the suspect has MURDERED an officer (i.e. finished them off). however even if that was not the case, the DNA is still going to end up being used against the suspect by an unsuspecting officer 30 minutes later

doesnt let you raid their property without TFU (which is again something you shouldn’t do).

i would agree with you if TFU were actually available when needed most of the time.

This is pointless because it get rids of the realism of the investigation. Also just makes SGTs+ and medics useless.

the realism of the investigation? unless the investigation is pestering a sergeant to get on and making them type out a sentence I dont see what this means. also the idea that sergeants and medics become useless after this makes absolutely no sense either

this would result in so many excuses to kos

ok this is actually a valid point thanks for bringing this up, I completely forgot how kill hungry the server is at times lol. automatic warrants are just going to hurt cops in the long run by permitting instant kos.

 

[3izu]

the realism of the investigation? unless the investigation is pestering a sergeant to get on and making them type out a sentence I dont see what this means. also the idea that sergeants and medics become useless after this makes absolutely no sense either

You need to investigate the situation before handing out warrants like candy. What I meant to say is sergeants or medics won't be entirely useless, but in the situation when an LEO is killed they're just useless because they have nothing to do. Plus it's OP if they automatically warrant them, like the bank system there's CCTV and NPCs there to ID them. But what about this one?

The only way I can see this is if an NPC/CCTV witnesses someone kill the cop, so they can report it and they'll be automatically warranted.

 

[GamingPeach]

Maybe the solution is supervisors/command members need to be more active?

Far too often is it the same set of supervisors and command members online and often its one or maybe two split across a PD force of 12+ which is absolutely ridiculous. Just my observation.

Maybe an activity report can be pulled for ranks above sergeant to see how many are clocking little to no hours per month.

 

[Bnjemann]

And as for finding out their properties, vehicles? This simply isn't feasible and expecting people to read the latest is just a shit fest in itself when it's not sorted.

Having the police force crippled significantly in the absence of supervisory staff incentivises supervisors to be on duty, as this is their purpose. Having warrants automatically set takes the humanity out of a warrant which opens them up for dispute, and no arresting officer ever allows warranted suspects to have a hearing because currently warrants are either set automatically for bank robbery or set by a person who is usually of equal or higher rank than the arresting officer. Furthermore to illiterate on my previous point, Making an arrest without a warrant using DNA uploaded evidence, whilst more difficult, is far from impossible.

 

[northnortheast]

Far too often is it the same set of supervisors and command members online and often its one or maybe two split across a PD force of 12+

david you speak the truth. either not enough supervisors in the first place or said supervisors aren't incentivised to get on enough which really limits the range of what the police department can do, but I cant really do much about that

anyway i've discarded this suggestion as max brought up a good point

 

[Clarky]

david you speak the truth. either not enough supervisors in the first place or said supervisors aren't incentivised to get on enough which really limits the range of what the police department can do, but I cant really do much about that

anyway i've discarded this suggestion as max brought up a good point

Thing is that this suggestion has brought more awareness to the lack of warranting due to not enough supervisors so there needs to be some form of a solution, I doubt they'll make something automatic but rather a more 'humanity' solution as Benji used to describe.

 

[Acerius]

Thing is that this suggestion has brought more awareness to the lack of warranting due to not enough supervisors so there needs to be some form of a solution, I doubt they'll make something automatic but rather a more 'humanity' solution as Benji used to describe.

Maybe the solution is supervisors/command members need to be more active?

Far too often is it the same set of supervisors and command members online and often its one or maybe two split across a PD force of 12+ which is absolutely ridiculous. Just my observation.

Maybe an activity report can be pulled for ranks above sergeant to see how many are clocking little to no hours per month.

Having the police force crippled significantly in the absence of supervisory staff incentivises supervisors to be on duty, as this is their purpose. Having warrants automatically set takes the humanity out of a warrant which opens them up for dispute, and no arresting officer ever allows warranted suspects to have a hearing because currently warrants are either set automatically for bank robbery or set by a person who is usually of equal or higher rank than the arresting officer. Furthermore to illiterate on my previous point, Making an arrest without a warrant using DNA uploaded evidence, whilst more difficult, is far from impossible.

All of these highlight a significant issue that we have suffered with for a long time.

We currently only have 13 Sergeants and 29 Corporals across the entire Department. Compared to 1789 registered LEOs in total, it is not a particularly good outlook. We currently have 193 Senior Officers, with the rest being Officers. I have purposefully omitted SSGT and above because of the extra responsibility they carry and the application processes aren't continuous like Sergeants and Corporals.

We need to be allocating and reprioritising our attention to those who do want to progress, but where the current system (which can often take a long time) provides a barrier to entry to supervisory ranks. That will be the purpose of the Officer/Senior Officer Development Scheme that I am working on, where through careful assessment and intimate training with myself and other leaders in the Department, Officers can be fast-tracked to Corporal and Senior Officers to Sergeant.

Ultimately as suggested by others, while there are a number of technical/code-based changes that could be made to reduce the scope of the problem, it is a human-based solution that will derive the best results - hence, the Officer/Senior Officer Development Scheme as a start.

The reason I believe such a scheme would work best is because there are always going to be those who do not want to become any higher than Senior Officer. Simply put, there are people that do not want to spend the extra 10/15 minutes to give someone an Observation Report, or just don't want to engage with other colleagues and would rather patrol solo or with their own friends. It is a great shame but it is not something that I will ever intend to force people not to do.

This means that those who can demonstrate to myself and my Senior Management Team that they have:

1. A willingness to learn; and
2. A true commitment to provide opportunities and lead others

Will be able to move through the chain of command quickly and in a formalised way, so that they can fully reap the fruits of their labour.

To surmise, the crux of the issue is that we do not have enough people in these roles because there is a barrier for those who do genuinely want to progress quickly and use the supervisory responsibilities in the way that they were intended.

I will address one specific point that I absolutely disagree with and will never in my tenure bring back:

Maybe an activity report can be pulled for ranks above sergeant to see how many are clocking little to no hours per month.

This was done before for ages before my time. It didn't work, it doesn't work, and it is not how leadership works. Fostering a culture of inclusivity and empowering others through a relationship of trust is the better way forward. In addition to this command members have a wealth of different responsibilities which do have a noticeable impact on ordinary LEOs, but which are not logged through the standard activity report.

We are not a corporation. We are not a real police force. These people are not employees, they are volunteers. As a closing note I would strongly say that by saying that on those terms, you do a great disservice to almost all currently sitting command members, as they do fantastic work and deliver measurable and impactful outcomes each and every day. Pure hours in-game is not an accurate reflection of someone's value or worth to the Department.

 

[GamingPeach]

All of these highlight a significant issue that we have suffered with for a long time.

We currently only have 13 Sergeants and 29 Corporals across the entire Department. Compared to 1789 registered LEOs in total, it is not a particularly good outlook. We currently have 193 Senior Officers, with the rest being Officers. I have purposefully omitted SSGT and above because of the extra responsibility they carry and the application processes aren't continuous like Sergeants and Corporals.

We need to be allocating and reprioritising our attention to those who do want to progress, but where the current system (which can often take a long time) provides a barrier to entry to supervisory ranks. That will be the purpose of the Officer/Senior Officer Development Scheme that I am working on, where through careful assessment and intimate training with myself and other leaders in the Department, Officers can be fast-tracked to Corporal and Senior Officers to Sergeant.

Ultimately as suggested by others, while there are a number of technical/code-based changes that could be made to reduce the scope of the problem, it is a human-based solution that will derive the best results - hence, the Officer/Senior Officer Development Scheme as a start.

The reason I believe such a scheme would work best is because there are always going to be those who do not want to become any higher than Senior Officer. Simply put, there are people that do not want to spend the extra 10/15 minutes to give someone an Observation Report, or just don't want to engage with other colleagues and would rather patrol solo or with their own friends. It is a great shame but it is not something that I will ever intend to force people not to do.

This means that those who can demonstrate to myself and my Senior Management Team that they have:

1. A willingness to learn; and
2. A true commitment to provide opportunities and lead others

Will be able to move through the chain of command quickly and in a formalised way, so that they can fully reap the fruits of their labour.

To surmise, the crux of the issue is that we do not have enough people in these roles because there is a barrier for those who do genuinely want to progress quickly and use the supervisory responsibilities in the way that they were intended.

I will address one specific point that I absolutely disagree with and will never in my tenure bring back:

This was done before for ages before my time. It didn't work, it doesn't work, and it is not how leadership works. Fostering a culture of inclusivity and empowering others through a relationship of trust is the better way forward. In addition to this command members have a wealth of different responsibilities which do have a noticeable impact on ordinary LEOs, but which are not logged through the standard activity report.

We are not a corporation. We are not a real police force. These people are not employees, they are volunteers. As a closing note I would strongly say that by saying that on those terms, you do a great disservice to almost all currently sitting command members, as they do fantastic work and deliver measurable and impactful outcomes each and every day. Pure hours in-game is not an accurate reflection of someone's value or worth to the Department.

This response is absolutely amazing and provides great detail, thank you.

I know previously there was a system to promote/fast track people and it would be great to see how you will develop this to be used more than it previously was without losing the quality which I am certain is a difficult and challenging thing.

I apologise if you took disrespect to my comment around pulling an activity report it was meant in no way to disrespect the excellent work command is doing which I have been a strong supporter of and continue to be. I agree 100% leadership is built from empowering others and building a trusting relationship but I am also a strong believer leaders must lead by example which some aren't from an activity perspective when some are going on duty for very few to no hours per month, on a regular basis.

I completely understand a Command member with the exact same life as a Sergeant or lower rank would have fewer hours due to their administrative duties but the administrative can't be that intense month on month, I have first-hand experience that it wasn't (granted a lot can change no doubt) but you as a department have hired a significant amount more command members, 28 command members when previously to your appointment it was 13, you have more than doubled the command presence yet a lot of command members aren't that active when surely the stronger presence has reduced the administrative work per command members (generally speaking, understand some it won't have affected as much like the chiefs as this has remained at 2).

Again I am a strong supporter of the majority of the command team and even more so the SMT team but it wouldn't be fair to ignore what previously the team looked like compared to now and yet still use the same reasoning as previous to avoid command being as active as I believe they should be. Granted some members are extremely active and you know who you are so hats off!

Thanks,
Gamingpeach

 

[Ariyanqwq]

Lets not forget. "Supervisors" are humans aswell.

 

[Dom (͡o‿O͡)]

Lets not forget. "Supervisors" are humans aswell.

i disagree, going too sergeant in the plpd is not a human trait

 

[northnortheast]

All of these highlight a significant issue that we have suffered with for a long time.

We currently only have 13 Sergeants and 29 Corporals across the entire Department. Compared to 1789 registered LEOs in total, it is not a particularly good outlook. We currently have 193 Senior Officers, with the rest being Officers. I have purposefully omitted SSGT and above because of the extra responsibility they carry and the application processes aren't continuous like Sergeants and Corporals.

We need to be allocating and reprioritising our attention to those who do want to progress, but where the current system (which can often take a long time) provides a barrier to entry to supervisory ranks. That will be the purpose of the Officer/Senior Officer Development Scheme that I am working on, where through careful assessment and intimate training with myself and other leaders in the Department, Officers can be fast-tracked to Corporal and Senior Officers to Sergeant.

Ultimately as suggested by others, while there are a number of technical/code-based changes that could be made to reduce the scope of the problem, it is a human-based solution that will derive the best results - hence, the Officer/Senior Officer Development Scheme as a start.

The reason I believe such a scheme would work best is because there are always going to be those who do not want to become any higher than Senior Officer. Simply put, there are people that do not want to spend the extra 10/15 minutes to give someone an Observation Report, or just don't want to engage with other colleagues and would rather patrol solo or with their own friends. It is a great shame but it is not something that I will ever intend to force people not to do.

This means that those who can demonstrate to myself and my Senior Management Team that they have:

1. A willingness to learn; and
2. A true commitment to provide opportunities and lead others

Will be able to move through the chain of command quickly and in a formalised way, so that they can fully reap the fruits of their labour.

To surmise, the crux of the issue is that we do not have enough people in these roles because there is a barrier for those who do genuinely want to progress quickly and use the supervisory responsibilities in the way that they were intended.

I will address one specific point that I absolutely disagree with and will never in my tenure bring back:
This was done before for ages before my time. It didn't work, it doesn't work, and it is not how leadership works. Fostering a culture of inclusivity and empowering others through a relationship of trust is the better way forward. In addition to this command members have a wealth of different responsibilities which do have a noticeable impact on ordinary LEOs, but which are not logged through the standard activity report.

We are not a corporation. We are not a real police force. These people are not employees, they are volunteers. As a closing note I would strongly say that by saying that on those terms, you do a great disservice to almost all currently sitting command members, as they do fantastic work and deliver measurable and impactful outcomes each and every day. Pure hours in-game is not an accurate reflection of someone's value or worth to the Department.

Glad to hear that something is being done about the current deficit of available supervisors. Whilst supervisors still have irl obligations that are understandable it's not uncommon to see off-duty supervisors on the server whilst the police force has hardly any officers available. Case and point, earlier today:





Obviously these issues aren't going to be immediately solved by adding more supervisors but the pressure can be taken off of the pistol cops with better activity and more incentive for acting supervisors to gear up.