Police Suggestion Allow defendants to always view evidence

[joey]

Brief description of idea:
Defendants of IA cases should always be able to view evidence submitted to better defend themselves. This is the same as action requests or reports, the complainant is protected by policy from and backlash.

What benefits would this idea have for the department:
The officer can better remember the situation and properly defend themselves.
Stops forcing officers to admit to something they may not have done

What potential negatives could this have for the department:
Officers poking holes in evidence - evidence should be strong enough to punish an officer anyway, this is moot.

Other additions:

 

[Alliat]

Yes, please the current system is outdated and puts the defendant in a disatvantage. It would be a better if he has a proper way of defending him self.

 

[CaughtRed]

Imo because most perp players seem to get very upset when people make an IA on them I don't think this option should be removed unless you can't identify the person who submitted the IA which I think is already how it is done? If a person cannot recall the situation they are in I'm sure they can ask the investigating officer for more details on the situation

 

[money]

Imo because most perp players seem to get very upset when people make an IA on them I don't think this option should be removed unless you can't identify the person who submitted the IA which I think is already how it is done? If a person cannot recall the situation they are in I'm sure they can ask the investigating officer for more details on the situation

This is already a thing with ARs, you can see who is reporting you. Nearly always you'll know who made an IA on you without actually needing to see their name. I support this as I do not wish to have to recall a situation to provide an accurate statement/justification of actions of something that happened 5+ days ago (counting the time the investigator will take to be assigned, review the evidence, and ask me relevant questions for a statement and me to have time to respond), and I am sure others don't either. Confidentiality part of not being able to see evidence is silly. Imagine being taken to a court case and instead of providing evidence against you, the judge says he is not allowed to show it to you and you need to justify your actions. And no I would rather not go into my demos.

 

[ModoSN]

To be honest the entire IA thing is ridiculous. This is a game... people play to have fun and sometimes people get triggered.

it also doesn’t help with the incredible bias within the pd. one cop can shoot 3 other cops and it’s fine but if a different cop does the same thing then they are discharged?

similarly, certain officers are allowed to drive around at 100mph running red lights for no reason but other officers would get demoted or discharged for that

 

[CaughtRed]

To be honest the entire IA thing is ridiculous. This is a game... people play to have fun and sometimes people get triggered.

it also doesn’t help with the incredible bias within the pd. one cop can shoot 3 other cops and it’s fine but if a different cop does the same thing then they are discharged?

similarly, certain officers are allowed to drive around at 100mph running red lights for no reason but other officers would get demoted or discharged for that

Wellll I don't think there's much bias in the PD, I'd say it only exists in small forms now. IA definetly no as it's handle through a group of people and is recorded. a lot of punishments would be based on previous history statement etc I guess. Maybe you should create a suggestion around this?

 

[Efan]

To be honest the entire IA thing is ridiculous. This is a game... people play to have fun and sometimes people get triggered.

it also doesn’t help with the incredible bias within the pd. one cop can shoot 3 other cops and it’s fine but if a different cop does the same thing then they are discharged?

similarly, certain officers are allowed to drive around at 100mph running red lights for no reason but other officers would get demoted or discharged for that

You seem to have specific examples in mind, can you please DM me, @Tyla Jai, @Collier or @Samuel with more details.

Just whoever you’re comfortable with.

 

[ModoSN]

You seem to have specific examples in mind, can you please DM me, @Tyla Jai, @Collier or @Samuel with more details.

Just whoever you’re comfortable with.

but I’m not upset or annoyed by them doing those things? A lot of the time it’s a funny situation like they drive like a moron and run someone over.. to be fair sometimes might not be funny for the person that dies.

my example where they shoot 3 cops, they are all friends and just messing around

my issue isn’t that these things happen, my issue is that it’s one rule for some and another for other

for example: Tyla shoots you in PD parking, it’s gonna be funny and nothing will happen but if If my friend shoots me in PD parking then he will get blacklisted and discharged

As I said I use you and Tyla as an example here, not saying this is what you two do

 

[Double J]

but I’m not upset or annoyed by them doing those things? A lot of the time it’s a funny situation like they drive like a moron and run someone over.. to be fair sometimes might not be funny for the person that dies.

my example where they shoot 3 cops, they are all friends and just messing around

my issue isn’t that these things happen, my issue is that it’s one rule for some and another for other

for example: Tyla shoots you in PD parking, it’s gonna be funny and nothing will happen but if If my friend shoots me in PD parking then he will get blacklisted and discharged

As I said I use you and Tyla as an example here, not saying this is what you two do

I was a part of cc for somewhat of 6 or so months. I can tell you that punishments are determined based on

• Length of Service in PD (New or Long-standing)
• Severity
• Intentional or accidental?
• Recent Infractions that are similar.

It all comes down to the voting in cc, this is why IA and PSD are no longer allowed to be CC.

 

[ModoSN]

I was a part of cc for somewhat of 6 or so months. I can tell you that punishments are determined based on

• Length of Service in PD (New or Long-standing)
• Severity
• Intentional or accidental?
• Recent Infractions that are similar.

It all comes down to the voting in cc, this is why IA and PSD are no longer allowed to be CC.

and that is great for when it gets to IA but I can see someone do something that’s worthy of an IA but not do anything because I understand it was just a joke or whatever but then that same person could be in a bad mood the next day and then IA me or someone else for doing the same thing

 

[Tetra]

@joey i have to agree with you on this one.
It’s always confused me as to why defendants can’t view evidence. Not only does it put them at a disadvantage but you will get suitatuon where an IA has been made on you because of something a week ago and you genuinely don’t remember the suitatuon causing you to look through your demos.
Some evidence can also be used in a dodgy way, cut to get rid of context ectera. Being allowed to view the evidence could prevent this and better allow people to defend themselves.

I understand confidentiality is a thing however in that case why isn’t it the case with ARS?

 

[ModoSN]

@joey i have to agree with you on this one.
It’s always confused me as to why defendants can’t view evidence. Not only does it put them at a disadvantage but you will get suitatuon where an IA has been made on you because of something a week ago and you genuinely don’t remember the suitatuon causing you to look through your demos.
Some evidence can also be used in a dodgy way, cut to get rid of context ectera. Being allowed to view the evidence could prevent this and better allow people to defend themselves.

I understand confidentiality is a thing however in that case why isn’t it the case with ARS?

There is no reason for there to be confidentiality.

you will know who made the IA on you based on the situation

like said above, you are protected from retaliation anyway so it really doesn’t make a difference

Viewing the evidence could give you the chance to change your story a bit though because you notice they didn’t capture something you did wrong so you end up not incriminating yourself more than you need to but that is realistic

 

[money]

and that is great for when it gets to IA but I can see someone do something that’s worthy of an IA but not do anything because I understand it was just a joke or whatever but then that same person could be in a bad mood the next day and then IA me or someone else for doing the same thing

Drifting a bit from the topic, but I think you're displeased that someone can get away with something that you would, for example, get an IA for.

my issue is that it’s one rule for some and another for other

If you don't make an IA cause you find it funny and don't see a reason to, doesn't mean that someone else seeing you do the exact same thing might find it funny, they might find it to be ruining role-play immersion or simply breaking policies which is something they don't want to see.
I understand what you are saying and I understand it might be valid, but it's very hard to put out your concerns if you are basing it on nothing but "they don't get an IA, but I would!" and you don't make a complaint when they do it, so that behavior can change.
IA will not be able to investigate unless you make a complaint. This goes for anyone committing misconduct, we won't be able to know unless you make a complaint.

 

[ModoSN]

Drifting a bit from the topic, but I think you're displeased that someone can get away with something that you would, for example, get an IA for.



If you don't make an IA cause you find it funny and don't see a reason to, doesn't mean that someone else seeing you do the exact same thing might find it funny, they might find it to be ruining role-play immersion or simply breaking policies which is something they don't want to see.
I understand what you are saying and I understand it might be valid, but it's very hard to put out your concerns if you are basing it on nothing but "they don't get an IA, but I would!" and you don't make a complaint when they do it, so that behavior can change.
IA will not be able to investigate unless you make a complaint. This goes for anyone committing misconduct, we won't be able to know unless you make a complaint.

im not saying it’s wrong, I’m just saying it is frustrating either a) having to be serious 24/7 or b) constantly watch out for who is around and know what mood their in

It’s no secret that IA’s are used for revenge. I think the policy for accepting them should be lowered from 40 days to something like 48/72 hours to prevent people sitting on recordings to use when that person pisses them off

 

[Efan]

@A1L @Super_

 

[Fielding]

Even back when i was a IA Senior Investigator i disagreed with how an officer isnt allowed to see the evidence. This isnt even the case in real life lol, officers can review their bodycams and other evidence before giving a statement of any form.

The IA system is absolutely stupid in some areas. And they deffo do not protect officers in any way shape or form.

 

[Auris]

Even back when i was a IA Senior Investigator i disagreed with how an officer isnt allowed to see the evidence. This isnt even the case in real life lol, officers can review their bodycams and other evidence before giving a statement of any form.

The IA system is absolutely stupid in some areas. And they deffo do not protect officers in any way shape or form.

yeah like a while ago i had a case against me were they hadnt provided 1 bit of evidence either

 

[Fielding]

yeah like a while ago i had a case against me were they hadnt provided 1 bit of evidence either

IA Policy states we can only explain to you what happened in a neutrual way or whatever it was.

so if John Doe shot and killed Jane Doe at some place id have to go in the form of

At Bazaar, in the Business sector the 29th of August 2021 you allegedly discharged your firearm striking and injuring a female/male/person


i dont rememebr its so long ago, my point is that in some cases its even hard to remember it. ANd people cant defend themselves properly after the situation because you forget details and you might even have more context to a situation then what provided in the evidence.

But then again PLPD really struggles to change or adapt old/new policies.

 

[Super_]

This suggestion is currently being looked into by myself and will be discussed soon with IA command and SMT.