AR on Matt Roberts

[Slick Willy]

Your Steam/In-game Name: Clyde Bollocks/ Clyde Boll

His/Her Steam/In-game Name: 4Sale / Matt Roberts

His/Her SteamID: STEAM_0:1:1157067437

Why Should This Player Be Punished: Rules 3.4, 3.5, RDM


Matt Roberts (4Sale on Steam) raided my org's apartment (slums 3) and stole the planters of my org member. Slums 2, owned by Matt and his buddy was then raided by TFU, when TFU left, I went in and attempted to retrieve my org member's planters. During this, Matt's buddy came in and I shot him, apparently he had died during the police raid and was coming back after NLR. After I killed him he tells Matt who was also on NLR what happened. Matt starts putting in OOC that he is going to put an AR in. I explained to him that his buddy was shot during a raid and I was retrieving the planters that he stole. He went on to talk about how it was a dick move and so on.

When I came out of my apartment (slums 3) a few moments later, Matt attempts to RDM me while I was running down the stairs. He was dead during me raiding his buddy so there was no reason to shoot me while I was unarmed walking out of the building. I run out of the building and bandage myself up right as the police roll up. I run up to police and tell them that the man in slums 2 shot me while I was going down the stairs. I go up the stairs with police and identify Matt as the shooter. While the police were talking to Matt, the officer tells Matt to come into his apartment and talk to him. Matt opens his door again and blatantly shoots me, killing me this is blatant RDM in addition to putting his own life in danger by pulling a gun in front of a TFU agent and shooting me for something that the only way he could know about is by breaking NLR or Meta Gaming. The medic revives me and Officer Bobbins keeps tell the medic not to revive Matt. My org member tells Bobbins that not allowing the medic to revive Matt so he can be arrested is illegal, the medic refuses Bobbins orders and revives Matt. Officer Bobbins then tells Matt that he can log off and that he is not going to charge him or arrest him. He even gives Matt his gun back. When the officer goes to leave, I follow him complaining that it is bullshit that he blatantly saw Matt shoot me and did nothing, not even take his gun away. While I'm complaining to the officer Matt yet again shoots me in the back of the head for no in character reason right in front of TFU. I get revived again, now Bobbins is tell Matt that he was gonna just let him go but now he has to arrest him.

Matt after the incident even admitted to rdming me 3 times in OOC claiming that it wasn't rdm because I "shouldn't have been a massive dick."

PROOF

Demo: Demo starts with OOC at 21000 ticks, 24300 ticks is when he attempts the first rdm, 26000 ticks for the 2nd rdm, 29000 ticks for 3rd rdm, 33800 ticks 4sale admits that he rdmed in OOC.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yd0w6Zn4lmBnqsuA3NU6czBENxsHcmGs/view?usp=sharing

Screenshots of OOC:
Talking about raid while dead in OOC.

 

[Bert]

Not to justify 4Sales actions here as he quite clearly did RDM you on 2 occasions. It also would be important to point out the fact that you were well aware that I had won the raid as I spoke to you after raiding them as TFU. Therefore I find your argument that you didn't know they died to be completely irrelevant. And it would be extremely hypocritical of you to continue with this AR without showing the situation that unfolded 10 minutes prior where you yourself RDM'd Matt while he was unarmed going back into his apartment. With this being said 4Sale did RDM you and I understand your frustration. But I would love for you to post the demo of you shooting him unarmed as well.

 

[Slick Willy]

Even if you consider me killing him when he walked in on me raiding him to get back my org members planters "rdm" which I don't. It has nothing to do with this incident. If he truly felt that I rdmed him, he should have put in an AR or an F6 as Collier was online at the time. Taking justice into your own hands regardless of whether you were wronged or not is not what you are supposed to do and is something I have been warned against. I didn't rdm him after he shot me twice in front of you. I didn't rdm you when you broke character and encouraged him to log out to avoid punishment. Instead I did what you are supposed to do and gathered evidence to support my claims and put it through the proper channels. If he believes he was rdmed he can still put in an AR with his demo. It is not my responsibility to fill out his AR against me or even provide evidence against myself...

Btw if you cared to look at my evidence, I did post the entire demo for them to review if they choose.

 

[Slick Willy]

Also I wouldn't throw the word hypocrite around when you were the one encouraging him to skirt the rules both in character and out of character while on duty as an officer.

 

[Slick Willy]

Also please remember that there were guns on the floor after you raided them the first time. Because again, as an officer you did not confiscate their weapons and you told them that you left their guns on the ground in their apartment in OOC. Which again, could easily be considered meta gaming or at least a breech of plpd protocol. So not only did he walk in while I was raiding him, he also had access to guns on the floor that you as an officer did not confiscate after raiding them for making illegal violent threats via adverts.

Please know that I would have shot him regardless because him coming back to his apartment endangers me during the raid and I had no idea of what he had on him and no way to secure him while also being able to carry out my org members planters. But the messages you meta gamed and put in OOC about leaving their guns on the floor could have easily worked against him as well.

 

[Bert]

going to digest this absolute mess of a response in one response and leave it for staff as I see no point in containing this debate any further. To be clear if you believe there were any breach in PLPD policies you are more than welcome to make an Internal Affairs complaint on myself. But to save you some time, there is no policy nor written penal code against leaving firearms on the floor after a raid. Simply put I had never seen the two players on the server before and figured they were fairly new. Being an individual who tries to help the newer player base at any opportunity. Aside the point you try branching your argument quite a few times here which makes things confusing but I’ll do my best to respond.
For starters, I totally agree that 4Sale RDM’d you, and I clearly understand your frustration, highlighted in my previous response. But I find it hypocritical that you didn’t include a quality recording of the incident that took place when you shot 4Sale when he was unarmed. Your demo is quite choppy and almost impossible to watch. Secondly I would like to explain why killing someone who is unarmed even though it’s a raid is in fact classified as RDM. During a raid when a subject isn’t carrying a visible weapon, it isn’t justifiable to kill that individual, per rule 2.5. Instead in the future you should make an attempt to gunpoint the individual and issue verbal commands prior to use of lethal force, an argument for 3.4 could also be made in this instance, so to be clear you should not have shot him. Also as a side note I gave him a chance to log off after being revived as he had informed me he had to leave, as I would imagine it was quite late wherever he was, which I had no issue with. After he killed yoi the second time however he was arrested so I’m not quite sure what point your trying to make. Regardless I’m not trying to defend 4Sale, as his actions are quite clear. But it was apparent after talking to the subject in question that his actions were in direct response to when you RDM’d him, and while obviously 2 wrongs don’t make a right, and that was wrong of him to do. I wanted to try to assist you for the future in a way that you could be better informed and avoid further problems moving on in regards to the rules by simply clarifying, and holding you accountable.

 

[Slick Willy]

@Bert Dont worry the IA on you is already submitted. And since you are not staff whether or not I should have shot him is not up to you. We will have to see what an actual staff member says when he puts in his AR with his own evidence. Again separate situations and since like you said 2 wrongs dont make a right, then it should hold no bearing on this AR. Again I do not believe it was rdm, but that will be up to an admin to decide if and when he puts in his AR.

 

[4Sale]

@Slick Willy After reading all of your claims against me and “evidence” of what happened, i’m still trying to find the part when you shot and killed me when I was unarmed (2.5). Bert, the TFU who raided me before this happened, had told me via LOOC that because he’s in a good mood he had left our guns next to our storage chest. When I quickly ran back to go and get my gun to store it because I was going to log off immediately after, you had shot and killed me when I was unarmed and didn’t even have any time to put my hands up and the most I could do in that time was crouch. So again, i’m wondering why you didn’t include the demo of THAT in your AR against me? I am also wondering why you’re going this far to try and get myself and the TFU in trouble, as if you have a personal vendetta against @Bert and I.

 

[4Sale]

I’ll get the demo of slick willy shooting me unarmed later this afternoon ^

 

[4Sale]

The TFU also acted the way he did probably because the server had near to no players online lmao.

 

[Slick Willy]

@4Sale same could be said about you when you stayed online when you "had to go" in order to attempt 3 rdms 2 of which were successful. As I told Bert, it is not my job to fill out your AR for you. I provided the save file for the complete demo if they choose to review the entire thing which is why I provided timestamps but the YouTube video only includes the pertinent evidence for THIS AR. I didn't include me killing you in the video because even if it gets deemed RDM, what you did was still against the rules and the "i had to go" excuse doesn't work when you could have left after I killed you. You could have left after you shot me in the Hall. You could have left when you killed me the first time, instead you stayed online and took the punishment for the perceived wrong doing into your own hands by blatantly rdming multiple times instead of going through the proper channels. If you truly feel what I did was rdm, please gather your own evidence and fill our your own AR as it really should have no bearing in this AR...

 

[Slick Willy]

@4Sale thats a terrible excuse.

 

[4Sale]

@Slick Willy Regarding me wanting to log off before all of this, yes I did want to log off. I wanted to retrieve our guns back and then log off but when you shot me unarmed and to take my firearms I wasn't going to log off and just let you get away with it. As much as I was literally falling asleep whilst waiting to respawn after you shot me (terrible aim by the way as I was on 1hp) I still wanted my guns back as the TFU had left them for us and not you mate.

 

[4Sale]

@Slick Willy (Clyde Boll) I'm guessing he saw what the TFU had put in OOC at the beginning of this demo so Clyde then went into my apartment and did this.

I mean hey at least you managed to actually hit me after your 3rd or 4th bullet!

 

[Slick Willy]

@4Sale Yep, and I purposely wasn't taking your guns, never did actually. Only time I touched your gun is when I attempted to pick my gun up after being uncuffed but my buddy did it at the same time so I picked up yours. Then I gave it to TFU when he asked for it. I only went for the planters that you stole from my org mate, I had no interest in your guns. I had 5 org members on the time, even with my "shitty aim" we could have raided you and taken your pistols... But again even getting your guns isn't much of an excuse, your buddy could have gotten your gun, he said he would in OOC and told you that you could leave. He even offered to help you put in an AR if it was rdm. And again if you felt it was rdm, then not letting me get away with it would be putting in an AR instead of breaking the rules.

 

[Slick Willy]

I'm glad you got this, now you can put in your own AR. Seems like with my shitty aim, you should have had plenty of time to put your hands up which would have made you not a threat. You walking in mid raid while there were guns on the ground posed an obvious risk to me which is why I shot you.

Yet again, I'm stuck saying if that is rdm then it needs to be in its own AR. Me "rdming" you does not give you the right to rdm me, definitely not multiple times. Any staff member will tell you that.

 

[4Sale]

I still had no time to put my hands up? Lmao. I suggest next time you see someone unarmed, you gunpoint them and TELL them to put their hands up and if they pull out an offensive weapon that is when you shoot. Read the rule 2.5 again please!

 

[Slick Willy]

@4Sale again, thats the subject of its own AR should you choose to put one in. It SHOULD have no bearing here.

 

[Mim]

After reviewing the footage we have decided it was unreasonable for you to shoot @Slick Willy multiple times in front of an officer as if it was a problem the officer is more than capable of dealing with it himself and by handling it yourself risking imprisonment of life and thus breaking 3.4. Second of all one of the situations where @Slick Willy shot you, you were breaking NLR so shouldn't have been there in the first place as shown by your own counter-evidence.

Due to this @4Sale will be banned for 3.4 and 3.5.

Reviewed with @A1L​