COMUNITY VEIWABLE PROVEN STAFF PUNISHMENTS

[JAMY2347]

I think it would be a good idea to allow this to happen as it could bring trust into the comunity by allowing players to see staff punishments. This would not be for all staff punishments this would only be for the staff members who have been found out and proven of wrongdoing. It may also bring an insight of to what staff have to go through and bring players to appreciate what they have to deal with even with the people they are meant to trust. Like I have stated above this would only be for staff who get found guilty of there actions as if everyone was veiwable this could lead to slander and problems with staff in game.

Thank you for your time, what do u think.

 

[Aquaa]

it could bring trust into the comunity by allowing players to see staff punishments.

How would this establish a stronger sense of trust for the head administration + owners? Are you in a possibility where staff complaints are not being dealt with and being tossed out the window?

This would not be for all staff punishments this would only be for the staff members who have been found out and proven of wrongdoing.

What? So it wouldn't be for all punishments, only those found guilty...? When would someone be punished without being found guilty of something lol makes no sense

 

[Clarky]

the system works, I was demoted twice

 

[JAMY2347]

How would this establish a stronger sense of trust for the head administration + owners? Are you in a possibility where staff complaints are not being dealt with and being tossed out the window?


What? So it wouldn't be for all punishments, only those found guilty...? When would someone be punished without being found guilty of something lol makes no sense

whats the point of showing a staff members report if it was false? i think uve read it too quick

 

[Aquaa]

whats the point of showing a staff members report if it was false? i think uve read it too quick

I think you meant to say not all reports...instead of all punishments

 

[JAMY2347]

I think you meant to say not all reports...instead of all punishments

yea i couldve worded this better but im not the best at english

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Logically speaking, everybody's punishments by staff are displayed on Scambans when they are convicted. I can see why the OP would argue it's fair that the public can also see Staff Convictions and also how that would lead to more accountability due to the destruction of one's own reputation if a conviction of staff abuse would bring upon them. A punishment is not imposed on those who are doing their job fine and not harming anybody, it's imposed on those who abuse their power and do bad things so some shame being placed on proven bad deeds is a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Exnem]

I hypothesize that the reason for staff punishments not being public information is that this could be used as a way to harass or bring up really old punishments from years ago. It would contribute nothing to the report they're dealing with in-game, and only cause problems or arguments about the validity of a staff member's actions.

If Administration aren't confident in a staff member, they'll remove them from the role immediately. @Kenty and @Clarky can speak on behalf of Administration about this, as they both were demoted for different reasons. Some more serious than others. I'll let Kenty speak for himself if he wishes.

If you know the rules and understand (even a little bit of) staff responsibilities, it won't be hard to identify when you need to make a staff complaint on a staff member. Whilst it is largely confidential and only visible to you and Administration whilst it's being investigated, the system works. I've made staff complaints that have been accepted in the past, a long time ago.

I see no purpose in making staff punishment records public. Their demotion should indicate their bad actions if and when they're demoted, which should be more than enough.

Our actions as Enforcers, Moderators and Senior Moderators are always scrutinized by Administration when the situation calls for it, and we are constantly held to a high standard of behavior and policing in this community. We have several internal guidelines and "SoP"s in regards to various things.
We lead by example, so deleting someone's post as a joke, or shitposting on an otherwise serious thread won't reflect well on the staff team as a whole, regardless of who did it.

It is incredibly difficult, and at most times impossible to predict bad actors in the staff team. In the MassRDM case, where a Moderator used noclip to MassRDM, it was spontaneous and entirely unpredictable. The staff member in question held all the qualities, experience and knowledge required to be a Moderator, and was as I understand it, quite respected and trusted for being a Moderator and member of the community. There was no warning ahead of time or heads up, making the incident quite a shock to most of us when we learned of it.

So if your concern is that we aren't held accountable for our actions, then I can assure you that we certainly are.

 

[Clarky]

I hypothesize that the reason for staff punishments not being public information is that this could be used as a way to harass or bring up really old punishments from years ago. It would contribute nothing to the report they're dealing with in-game, and only cause problems or arguments about the validity of a staff member's actions.

If Administration aren't confident in a staff member, they'll remove them from the role immediately. @Kenty and @Clarky can speak on behalf of Administration about this, as they both were demoted for different reasons. Some more serious than others. I'll let Kenty speak for himself if he wishes.

If you know the rules and understand (even a little bit of) staff responsibilities, it won't be hard to identify when you need to make a staff complaint on a staff member. Whilst it is largely confidential and only visible to you and Administration whilst it's being investigated, the system works. I've made staff complaints that have been accepted in the past, a long time ago.

I see no purpose in making staff punishment records public. Their demotion should indicate their bad actions if and when they're demoted, which should be more than enough.

Our actions as Enforcers, Moderators and Senior Moderators are always scrutinized by Administration when the situation calls for it, and we are constantly held to a high standard of behavior and policing in this community. We have several internal guidelines and "SoP"s in regards to various things.
We lead by example, so deleting someone's post as a joke, or shitposting on an otherwise serious thread won't reflect well on the staff team as a whole, regardless of who did it.

It is incredibly difficult, and at most times impossible to predict bad actors in the staff team. In the MassRDM case, where a Moderator used noclip to MassRDM, it was spontaneous and entirely unpredictable. The staff member in question held all the qualities, experience and knowledge required to be a Moderator, and was as I understand it, quite respected and trusted for being a Moderator and member of the community. There was no warning ahead of time or heads up, making the incident quite a shock to most of us when we learned of it.

So if your concern is that we aren't held accountable for our actions, then I can assure you that we certainly are.

I DISAGREE WITH THEIR DECISION FUCK @Hayden

 

[HuskyD0G]

I get were your coming from, but I feel as if this was made out of anger for distaste for a staff member. I actually have a staff member I dislike highly as they have a very terrible attitude about everything and take it way too serious, however I can't really staff report them because sadly they're still doing their jobs even if they are being a passive aggressive asshole. I have first hand insight however of why this is bad, other communities allowed this including the one I came from displayed openly what happened on staff reports and if they were accepted. It led to extreme witch hunts. Not to mention it would cause staff anxiety knowing everyone can see they fucked up.

 

[JAMY2347]

idk why eeryone seems to think this was made out of anger it wasnt and was just an idea nothing else

 

[JAMY2347]

I hypothesize that the reason for staff punishments not being public information is that this could be used as a way to harass or bring up really old punishments from years ago. It would contribute nothing to the report they're dealing with in-game, and only cause problems or arguments about the validity of a staff member's actions.

If Administration aren't confident in a staff member, they'll remove them from the role immediately. @Kenty and @Clarky can speak on behalf of Administration about this, as they both were demoted for different reasons. Some more serious than others. I'll let Kenty speak for himself if he wishes.

If you know the rules and understand (even a little bit of) staff responsibilities, it won't be hard to identify when you need to make a staff complaint on a staff member. Whilst it is largely confidential and only visible to you and Administration whilst it's being investigated, the system works. I've made staff complaints that have been accepted in the past, a long time ago.

I see no purpose in making staff punishment records public. Their demotion should indicate their bad actions if and when they're demoted, which should be more than enough.

Our actions as Enforcers, Moderators and Senior Moderators are always scrutinized by Administration when the situation calls for it, and we are constantly held to a high standard of behavior and policing in this community. We have several internal guidelines and "SoP"s in regards to various things.
We lead by example, so deleting someone's post as a joke, or shitposting on an otherwise serious thread won't reflect well on the staff team as a whole, regardless of who did it.

It is incredibly difficult, and at most times impossible to predict bad actors in the staff team. In the MassRDM case, where a Moderator used noclip to MassRDM, it was spontaneous and entirely unpredictable. The staff member in question held all the qualities, experience and knowledge required to be a Moderator, and was as I understand it, quite respected and trusted for being a Moderator and member of the community. There was no warning ahead of time or heads up, making the incident quite a shock to most of us when we learned of it.

So if your concern is that we aren't held accountable for our actions, then I can assure you that we certainly are.

yes but not everyone cares enough or wants to keep track of the staff heirachy thing so people wont know whos been demoted and why it was just a generall discussion.

like i stated below idk why people think this was made out of hate

 

[Clarky]

yes but not everyone cares enough or wants to keep track of the staff heirachy thing so people wont know whos been demoted and why it was just a generall discussion.

like i stated below idk why people think this was made out of hate

There's just simply no need for this, the way it currently is works is fine. I can assure you that they do take the complaints serious and their decision-making is ultimately done as a team, so it works democratically - what action is done nor having to prove action was taken isn't your business as it is a staff matter to deal with it privately rather than announcing it to the whole world what's been done and can be quite humiliating for some especially if it an error on their behalf.

 

[Efan]

I don’t really want to publish the data personally because if you exclude names in the statistics then it will generate discussions on who received the punishment. This is just going to end in people being punished for basic conduct violations.

On the other hand I don’t really want to publish the data with the names because all of our staff are giving up their free time to help the community and the majority of complaints we do accept are momentary lapses or small accidents. I do not want to “shame” staff for mistakes anyone could make, especially when they give up their free time to help the community for little reward.

If people are upset that their complaints are not properly dealt with then there is many other channels. We have two branches of senior administration or alternatively you can message the owners. Although I have never seen a complaint where it has not been taken seriously.

 

[Hayden]

Usually when I respond to a complaint (and the other admins) that has been accepted, I'll let the complainant know that the staff member was in the wrong and a form of action will be taken against them, although I don't think it's necessary to tell them what the action was. As Ethan has already said, staff members already give up their free time to help make the server a bit more enjoyable, so I don't think it's necessary to publicly display a list of "staff member punishments" as it doesn't really achieve anything. The process is already transparent enough in my opinion.

 

[Double J]

I can confirm from the few staff complaints I had on myself (At least ones that were Actioned and I was spoken to about) did end up in some sort of action. I wasn't ever "Punished" as most of the time it was a small issue or one that was a simple mistake and was easily dealt with using other means.

There's a staff warning system in place. I believe staff have a max of 3 strikes (Unless this has been lowered, Removed or increased) until they are demoted or removed from the team. My removal was down to inactivity which is understandable.

I don't think revealing information surrounding staff punishments or complaints is necessary. Staff already have to deal with near enough 100 or so users a day and I'm guessing since I was last staff the report count has increased dramatically (and yet @Pugga somehow still managed to pull nearly 200 reports a week). Some staff opt to explain what has occurred in a forum post.

At the end of the day, I don't see making staff punishments public is necessary.

 

[Tyla Jai]

I think @Efan's reply covers anything I would have said but just to give you something, here are the accepted complaint outcomes and reasons on helpers this year so far.

Management Advice	2c Powers and Permissions
Formal Warning	2a General Conduct
Management Advice	2a General Conduct
Management Advice	2a General Conduct
Formal Warning	2b Rule Violations
Management Advice	2c Powers and Permissions
Final Warning	2a General Conduct
Demoted	1a General Activity
Formal Warning	1a General Activity
Formal Warning	2a General Conduct
Formal Warning	2b Rule Violations
Demoted	2c Powers and Permissions

 

[Deleted member 4084]

I do believe that displaying community punishments is unreasonable--as an alternative displaying what staff members can and can't do to allow players to understand when to make a staff complaint would be useful; maybe making the SOPs public with redactions where necessary?