Server Suggestion Dispatcher Office lockpick

[MalekIsWeird]

Suggestion Title: Dispatcher Office lockpick
Suggestion Description: you can't lockpick the dispatcher door, giving a unfair advantage while pd raiding to the cops because somehow a wooden door can't be lockpicked but a metal one intended for holding the most scummy criminals deep within PD can be lockpicked.

Less people have to die if lockpicking dispatcher office can be a thing also, taking them hostage or finishing the raid unnoticed except obviously by the dispatcher in your captivity is better than causing an unnecessary shootout because their door is magically unpickable.

Why should this be added?:
- Balancing
- Realism
- Currently, TFU can camp prison and or hide behind this UNpickable door. But once a raid happens, it's easy for them to just wallbang or flank from that same door. This makes PD raids so aids because you just get a "safe" room to hide in so you can just come out and peekaboo 8 people who can't lockpick inside to clear it.

What negatives could this have?:
- None?

What problem would this suggestion solve?: Unrealistic OP door lock

 

[unscsnip3r]

Not 100% sure how I feel about this personally, as in current form dispatch is a non combatant role in gov, and their positioning and lack of firearms would make for way too easy a hostage situation that would solely be there to cripple pd comms for longer than reasonably needed.

Additionally to my knowledge that only a supervisor role can unlock said door, and even if this is an issue, theres the meeting room...

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Not 100% sure how I feel about this personally, as in current form dispatch is a non combatant role in gov, and their positioning and lack of firearms would make for way too easy a hostage situation that would solely be there to cripple pd comms for longer than reasonably needed.

Additionally to my knowledge that only a supervisor role can unlock said door, and even if this is an issue, theres the meeting room...

in what world is it "easy" to break into the most heavily guarded facility on the map, breach past 1 of the outside doors then the 2; 1 on stairwell and then the second on the inner side all while worrying about not being gunpointed by heavily armored swat units camping the station for their next montage clip opportunity

 

[Laddy]

+Support on this

I've never seen the door be an actual problem, but for scenarios like you pointed out the door needs to be able to be picked.

I also like the idea of taking the dispatch hostage to escape. Of course they would have to add some feature that calls are routed when dispatcher isn't at his computer.

 

[Goonsberg]

Would love to see some dispatch hostage taking!

if only you could point a gun at his head during a bank raid and tell him to tell you cops locations

 

[Bnjemann]

The “Unfair advantage” of CCTV call-outs from all 3 of the angles at PD dispatch can see? Why should dispatchers be made accessible? When they die they’ll have 15 minutes before they can go back to the one singular location they can do their job from.

This used to be a thing and it just resorted in dispatch being executed or “breaking 3.4” whilst in CCTV because they don’t know they’re being gunpointed.

As for cops abusing dispatch office in PD raid, that’s abuse of a mechanic made for another purpose, DISPATCH are supposed to benefit from the protection, Not police officers with defensive capability.

When this was a thing the logic was “Dispatchers are cops, therefor I must kill them when I raid PD” and it just wasn’t fun or practical for anyone else other than the killer because even when they respawn the entire government wouldn’t know anything going on via 911 because dispatch is unable to notify them.

 

[Apo_llo]

let’s change the wooden door to a vault door then! keep us dispatchers safe.

 

[Lhealey05]

let’s change the wooden door to a vault door then! keep us dispatchers safe.

I agree

 

[Lhealey05]

Unless we get a pistol to protect our self I ain’t up voting this

 

[MalekIsWeird]

The “Unfair advantage” of CCTV call-outs from all 3 of the angles at PD dispatch can see? Why should dispatchers be made accessible? When they die they’ll have 15 minutes before they can go back to the one singular location they can do their job from.

2.5 if you kill a dispatcher for an invalid reason just to kill a dispatcher. PD raids are unique events and aren’t common, then on top of all that you have to safely breach past 3 heavily guarded locked doors. You’re telling me the 15 minutes is the biggest obstacle?

This used to be a thing and it just resorted in dispatch being executed or “breaking 3.4” whilst in CCTV because they don’t know they’re being gunpointed.

notifiers:
- radio commms notifying that the dispatcher office is or has Been infiltrated
- cameras showing the doors are being breached
- incident reports showing doors at PD Have been breached
- loud ass mf alarms at their doors.

As for cops abusing dispatch office in PD raid, that’s abuse of a mechanic made for another purpose, DISPATCH are supposed to benefit from the protection, Not police officers with defensive capability.

Calling that an Abuse of mechanic /exploit proves how there is a flaw in the door being magically more secure than the city vault. Officers using it as defensive capability is actually not against any rules as far as I’m aware but it damn sure is unfair to the criminal player base when they raid once in a blue moon at PD and want to breach past a wooden door.

When this was a thing the logic was “Dispatchers are cops, therefor I must kill them when I raid PD” and it just wasn’t fun or practical for anyone else other than the killer because even when they respawn the entire government wouldn’t know anything going on via 911 because dispatch is unable to notify them.

Again, 2.5 and the rarity + difficulty of infiltrating that deep perfectly justifies this change. Killing unarmed people for no benefit has and always will be 2.5 so I don’t get your point. If dispatcher doesn’t do anything to result in their death they are good. In addition like I said, raiding PD is extremely hard, getting inside the dispatcher office is actually even harder then getting in the prison which is comical. Dispatcher office has 2 airlock doors and one is impossible to lockpick.

 

[Bnjemann]

door can't be lockpicked but a metal one intended for holding the most scummy criminals deep within PD can be lockpicked.

You can’t apply this logic here when there is literally an unlockpickable steel gate that can only be opened via remote access from the NPC.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Unless we get a pistol to protect our self I ain’t up voting this

This is counter intuitive. The whole point of raiding dispatchers office is for a better holdout spot + possibly taking hostage + crippling PD comms momentarily to boost the success rate as a trade off for the risk taken to infiltrate the dispatch office

Dispatchers would just be killed 100% of the time if that’s your only condition. Dispatchers realistically are unarmed and zip ties would make them even more vulnerable crippling their own communication devices. Protecting them from death even more so so they don’t have to wait 15 mins in NLR and just go back to work once the raid is over via breaking out ziptie a or being released.

The only issue I find is that if someone dies in a PD raid like 10 mins prior to the negotiation even staring, there’s a high chance the cops who already are itching to shoot will disregard the precious life of whatever captive there is and just open fire for dumb reasons like the negotiations not working out for a period of 2 minutes.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

You can’t apply this logic here when there is literally an unlockpickable steel gate that can only be opened via remote access from the NPC.

of course I can? The gate first and foremost is an electronic remote access gate not a door with a door lock. Prison doors and dispatcher office doors are both doors with locks like any other.

 

[HuskyD0G]

The “Unfair advantage” of CCTV call-outs from all 3 of the angles at PD dispatch can see? Why should dispatchers be made accessible? When they die they’ll have 15 minutes before they can go back to the one singular location they can do their job from.

This used to be a thing and it just resorted in dispatch being executed or “breaking 3.4” whilst in CCTV because they don’t know they’re being gunpointed.

As for cops abusing dispatch office in PD raid, that’s abuse of a mechanic made for another purpose, DISPATCH are supposed to benefit from the protection, Not police officers with defensive capability.

When this was a thing the logic was “Dispatchers are cops, therefor I must kill them when I raid PD” and it just wasn’t fun or practical for anyone else other than the killer because even when they respawn the entire government wouldn’t know anything going on via 911 because dispatch is unable to notify them.

Benje's point here is what basically invalidates this whole suggestion, why on earth would you allow people to lockpick in and kill dispatchers and make them unable to come back for 15 minutes considering it's the only thing they can do is sit in that office and give callouts. A better suggestion would to be add a way to disable the camera's inside PD before raiding to block the cams or 3 minutes to gain time to fight cops without being legit ESP'd with god-tier callouts.

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Benje's point here is what basically invalidates this whole suggestion, why on earth would you allow people to lockpick in and kill dispatchers and make them unable to come back for 15 minutes considering it's the only thing they can do is sit in that office and give callouts. A better suggestion would to be add a way to disable the camera's inside PD before raiding to block the cams or 3 minutes to gain time to fight cops without being legit ESP'd with god-tier callouts.

Husky, his point doesn’t invalidate the suggestion, I explained why in my response if you just read my response.

Also the “better” alternative you proposed does 0 to address the glaring problems I listed.

 

[Bnjemann]

2.5 if you kill a dispatcher for an invalid reason just to kill a dispatcher. PD raids are unique events and aren’t common, then on top of all that you have to safely breach past 3 heavily guarded locked doors. You’re telling me the 15 minutes is the biggest obstacle?

Then why would you waste time breaking into additional doors? If its already a huge obstacle why would you? Logically speaking if you were raiding PD and you saw a cop walking around, dispatcher or not, you'll probably shoot them down since they have the power to legally identify you and have you arrested. Allowing them to be accessible by civilians in this circumstance will just lead to morons wasting resources breaking into the office to execute them, just like in the days when this was possible.

In regards to the 15 minute thing, yes. How else would a paramedic be informed of someone dying to a car or something if not dispatch. Unless you proactively check the Police computer (which most medics dont on account of most of them being newer players) then you've basically got 5 minutes of red screen and 5 minutes of NLR because of a silly little accident medics could otherwise resolve. Theres a fire someplace? Firemen wouldn't know, without checking the Police computer if the dispatcher is stuck in a state of limbo. During this NLR period, what do you expect dispatchers to want to do? Sit outside having almost no other purpose?

notifiers:
- radio commms notifying that the dispatcher office is or has Been infiltrated
- cameras showing the doors are being breached
- incident reports showing doors at PD Have been breached
- loud ass mf alarms at their doors.

You skipped the point entirely. I never said they wouldn't know there's a PD raid, The point was that Dispatchers are glued to their CCTV when these incidents happen and most the time they would have no idea someone is behind them ordering them out of a chair. We had to deal with this alot when this was a possible feature, countless 3.4 dispatch reports.

Furthermore, you even said in your suggestion:

Less people have to die if lockpicking dispatcher office can be a thing also, taking them hostage or finishing the raid unnoticed except obviously by the dispatcher in your captivity is better than causing an unnecessary shootout because their door is magically unpickable.

Why would risking triggering 2 more alarms within a secure, guarded facility, just to take some desk wagie hostage result in "Less Deaths"? You'd have more luck taking the Jailer NPC hostage in that scenario (NPCs can be taken hostage as they are still to be considered people via the Rule 3.21) Or just taking a cop hostage. Hostage situations are always last resorts, something you do when you are physically cornered. You need to elaborate a lot more as to why you would consider this less risk, When you're saying the risk of breaking through 3 doors inside the Police Station can be mitigated by breaking down 3 doors, cornering yourself in a comically long corridoor, just to then break down or have dispatch unlock the other 2 doors you need to get to your jailed friend.

Calling that an Abuse of mechanic /exploit proves how there is a flaw in the door being magically more secure than the city vault. Officers using it as defensive capability is actually not against any rules as far as I’m aware but it damn sure is unfair to the criminal player base when they raid once in a blue moon at PD and want to breach past a wooden door.

This is a preventative measure with the sole purpose of protecting dispatchers from people breaking in. A uniformed patrol officer is not a dispatcher and therefor cannot take advantage of this measure. Furthermore the advantage would be minimal anyways, whats he gonna do, Sit and shoot through the door? He's either going to be wallbangable entirely if he does it through the first door or completely useless if they do this behind both doors.

There isn't really any valid reason to allow civilians into that room uninvited. Gunpointing dispatch to get out the chair? Maybe, but its a pointless endeavour. The advantage of CCTV in this scenario alone is pretty futile, Cops will be significantly harder to kill when they just camp outside PD than when a dispatcher is telling them what room they are in and they are pushing into the building.

Again, 2.5 and the rarity + difficulty of infiltrating that deep perfectly justifies this change. Killing unarmed people for no benefit has and always will be 2.5 so I don’t get your point. If dispatcher doesn’t do anything to result in their death they are good. In addition like I said, raiding PD is extremely hard, getting inside the dispatcher office is actually even harder then getting in the prison which is comical. Dispatcher office has 2 airlock doors and one is impossible to lockpick.

Why would it be 2.5 to shoot a Police Officer when raiding the PD and shooting Police officers? It would just be completely futile allowing people into that room. Getting inside the dispatchers office being hard is an intended feature, which is working directly as intended. Its supposed to be inaccessible. That room being inaccessible makes dispatch bearable, it prevents individuals, with "Valid" reason or not from breaking in and either killing a dispatcher or breaking in solely to be annoying impossible.

There's just no reason for this to exist and this is coming from someone who, back when it was considered allowed and normal, would break into the dispatchers office to gunpoint or execute dispatchers and / or use their room to camp cops coming down stairs during PD raids.

If you want to "Balance" PD raiding, Just make that room between the jailers office and the cells significantly less campable.

 

[MaverickRat]

. PD raids are unique events and aren’t common,

lol

 

[MalekIsWeird]

Then why would you waste time breaking into additional doors? If its already a huge obstacle why would you? Logically speaking if you were raiding PD and you saw a cop walking around, dispatcher or not, you'll probably shoot them down since they have the power to legally identify you and have you arrested. Allowing them to be accessible by civilians in this circumstance will just lead to morons wasting resources breaking into the office to execute them, just like in the days when this was possible.

A false generalization of how every criminal plays doesn’t prove anything. Your question for why it’s good to break into the office is answered above but I’ll reiterate:

1) crippling comms while raid is taking place
2) using a hostage (Jailer can’t move, it can be taken hostage but that is nowhere near as good as an actual player because an actual player)
3) the “comically long hallway” is a kill hall, fighting a Zerg in a space like that is very advantageous.
4) Bobby pinning that door and using the lieutenant dispatcher to unlock the door to silently sneak out then leaving him or her zip tied does mitigate a big shootout.

In regards to the 15 minute thing, yes. How else would a paramedic be informed of someone dying to a car or something if not dispatch. Unless you proactively check the Police computer (which most medics dont on account of most of them being newer players) then you've basically got 5 minutes of red screen and 5 minutes of NLR because of a silly little accident medics could otherwise resolve. Theres a fire someplace? Firemen wouldn't know, without checking the Police computer if the dispatcher is stuck in a state of limbo. During this NLR period, what do you expect dispatchers to want to do? Sit outside having almost no other purpose?

The whole point behind the NLR argument is totally reliant on the aforementioned false generalization that they’d be killed 100% of the time. This is obviously false, dispatchers are unarmed and vulnerable if caught but heavily guarded by doors as well as their location.

I can’t imagine a single scenario where I’d want to kill the dispatcher unless he straight up doesn’t surrender in front of me and starts calling out knowing I’d kill him for it which is his fault at that point.

In the incident a dispatcher actually breaks 3.4 and gets killed, they should have to re enter on duty after their death so the whole server doesn’t have to suffer from their actions.

You skipped the point entirely. I never said they wouldn't know there's a PD raid, The point was that Dispatchers are glued to their CCTV when these incidents happen and most the time they would have no idea someone is behind them ordering them out of a chair. We had to deal with this alot when this was a possible feature, countless 3.4 dispatch reports.

I didn’t skip the point, I addressed it appropriately. You just restated it and emphasized a part that doesn’t prove anything. 3.4 is the most commonly broken rule, dispatchers or anyone breaking 3.4 “a lot” is not a profound idea…

Furthermore, you even said in your suggestion:


Why would risking triggering 2 more alarms within a secure, guarded facility, just to take some desk wagie hostage result in "Less Deaths"? You'd have more luck taking the Jailer NPC hostage in that scenario (NPCs can be taken hostage as they are still to be considered people via the Rule 3.21) Or just taking a cop hostage. Hostage situations are always last resorts, something you do when you are physically cornered. You need to elaborate a lot more as to why you would consider this less risk, When you're saying the risk of breaking through 3 doors inside the Police Station can be mitigated by breaking down 3 doors, cornering yourself in a comically long corridoor, just to then break down or have dispatch unlock the other 2 doors you need to get to your jailed friend.

Addressed above.

This is a preventative measure with the sole purpose of protecting dispatchers from people breaking in. A uniformed patrol officer is not a dispatcher and therefor cannot take advantage of this measure. Furthermore the advantage would be minimal anyways, whats he gonna do, Sit and shoot through the door? He's either going to be wallbangable entirely if he does it through the first door or completely useless if they do this behind both doors.

at first you agreed it was abuse of mechanic now you’re claiming the advantage is “minimal” when truth be said it’s not. I personally have no degree in CQB but having unbreakable comms and a safe room to wait to flank in is not “minimal advantage”.

There isn't really any valid reason to allow civilians into that room uninvited. Gunpointing dispatch to get out the chair? Maybe, but it’s a pointless endeavour. The advantage of CCTV in this scenario alone is pretty futile, Cops will be significantly harder to kill when they just camp outside PD than when a dispatcher is telling them what room they are in and they are pushing into the building.

Evidently it’s not pointless and I’ve provided several reasons for this.

Why would it be 2.5 to shoot a Police Officer when raiding the PD and shooting Police officers? It would just be completely futile allowing people into that room. Getting inside the dispatchers office being hard is an intended feature, which is working directly as intended. Its supposed to be inaccessible. That room being inaccessible makes dispatch bearable, it prevents individuals, with "Valid" reason or not from breaking in and either killing a dispatcher or breaking in solely to be annoying impossible.

Why is this one of the many rhetorical questions you have asked that seem to only prove that you didn’t actually read what I said?

I already answered these Questions. For example where I said:
“2.5 and the rarity + difficulty of infiltrating that deep perfectly justifies this change. Killing unarmed people for no benefit has and always will be 2.5 so I don’t get your point. If dispatcher doesn’t do anything to result in their death they are good.”

Including my reply to @Lhealey05

There's just no reason for this to exist and this is coming from someone who, back when it was considered allowed and normal, would break into the dispatchers office to gunpoint or execute dispatchers and / or use their room to camp cops coming down stairs during PD raids.

I provided multiple reasons for it to exist in multiple replies including reasons in the main post being reiterated multiple times in the same thread. Even if you did or didn’t do it back when it was a thing, that doesn’t prove your point anymore. That just disproves the claim you made prior to mentioning you used to do this because clearly you did it for a reason but the reason wasn’t the same as any of the multiple I personally listed. The reasons I listed take into consideration preserving dispatcher’s life and making it basically impossible for them to be executed unless they break 3.4 or cops fuck up a hostage situation just to shoot.

And even then, I gave an easy solution to stop the downfall of a dispatcher from hurting all firefighters and medics.

If you want to "Balance" PD raiding, Just make that room between the jailers office and the cells significantly less campable.

That change wouldn’t come until V6 and this change is actionable in V5. Why should criminals have to wait for however long it takes for V6 to get a map change when this suggestion can put an end to that same camping tactic sooner?

 

[Sindarin]