Help Help I'm being Oppressed!

[Walker]

Recently a lot of changes have been put in place and it all comes from a staff POV. I disagree with these relying on only the opinions of staff members, they see everything differently to players (The majority) and changes affecting players get made without any discussion, input from players. We are a community so why do the majority of us get 0 input on changes.

The rules discussion thread has been abandoned, instead we see these announcements coming in out of no where and players disagree with or agree with them. Issues arise that could of all been solved if players were consulted first. Most of the input would be unneeded but thats not for certain. A good few points could be raised, good ideas could come to surface to make sure everyone is happy.

Just my opinion, wondering what others are.

Inb4 warned *insert passive agressive smiley*

 

[Philip]

Yeah, I really don't like the change of 2.4 on the forums, like, why aren't we allowed to put our opinions on AR's, appeals and all the other stuff that has to do with the administration if we weren't part of it, I mean, aren't we a community?
And I know what you think "Philip you goon post it in the rule discussion, well, imo nothing happens in the rule discussion.

 

[Ayjay]

This is going to be long, I personally feel that ..

Spoiler: Rant

just kidding I don't care

discuss your shit with the community first moron you goon

 

[MrLewis]

Yeah, I really don't like the change of 2.4 on the forums, like, why aren't we allowed to put our opinions on AR's, appeals and all the other stuff that has to do with the administration if we weren't part of it, I mean, aren't we a community?

Your statement is completely true, but there's one thing you forget. The Action request, ban appeals and refund requests are all administration threads. They're their for the sole purpose of informing members of staff so that we can deal with them however we need to.

As aggressive as it may sound, we're the ones who hold the staff rank, we don't need the community's opinion on these types of threads. Just think about it this way, in-game staff members respond to reports, in which they take the people involved and reach a verdict on the whole situation; if a random community member asked to join in and give their side of the story, what would we say? We'd say no, because the truth is, we don't need your guys's opinion on these given situations, that's why we have the rank in-game, so that we can deal with situations where people have broken rules.

The same concept applies here, those threads are there for staff members to simply deal with things.

p.s - I don't want this to sound nazi, it's just someone had to say it.

 

[Death Howl]

I said the same thing and got two replies one from Moron who understood my position and reading between the lines it seems somewhat rushed or that its just rare that our opinions are noticed on AR's which seems true. We only know if what we have said is taken into account is if we are quoted.

Chris just did the complete opposite thinking that I was trying to do his job. He believed that we are not considered in AR's and why we should request to state our opinions. I think we need an explaination from @MoronPipllyd about this really but I would also like @Chris to come in since he seems involved in it.

I have been around since V1 and believed that you can only get recognised sometimes with a nice shiny rank. Shame about helper this situation would be different if they were still around.

 

[Murtsley]

Cough

Spoiler: Banta

 

[Philip]

Your statement is completely true, but there's one thing you forget. The Action request, ban appeals and refund requests are all administration threads. They're their for the sole purpose of informing members of staff so that we can deal with them however we need to.

As aggressive as it may sound, we're the ones who hold the staff rank, we don't need the community's opinion on these types of threads. Just think about it this way, in-game staff members respond to reports, in which they take the people involved and reach a verdict on the whole situation; if a random community member asked to join in and give their side of the story, what would we say? We'd say no, because the truth is, we don't need your guys's opinion on these given situations, that's why we have the rank in-game, so that we can deal with situations where people have broken rules.

The same concept applies here, those threads are there for staff members to simply deal with things.

p.s - I don't want this to sound nazi, it's just someone had to say it.

What I meant is, people who might want to prove them self to the community by replying to these kind of threads, a lot of people who are in the staff team right now are here because here as they showed their rule knowledge in disputes, apologys, ARs etc, and I'm not that that is all they did, but it played a big part in it.
Some people who were banned for a long time or permanently have proved that they know the rules and are ready to come back by showing that in the administration section, and if we don't give people the possibility to prove themselves, how are they ever going to do that?

 

[Jeffer Cake]

Want my opinion on all this? I said mine a while ago, seems they finally put it in place. It might give you a better perspective on things. https://perpheads.com/threads/commenting-on-appeals-ars.14177/

+ Just to make things clear to you all, staff can tell me if I'm wrong. But giving your opinion on an AR or Ban appeal really isn't what staff look for when choosing new staff members. At the end of the day, a staff member is someone who is resilant, self efficient and a team worker all at the same time. It is someone who can stay calm in heated situations and not let their emotions sway their judgement. None of these qualities can really be shown in a comment in an AR or Ban appeal. And from the post I made, I've previously mentioned that all these comments on AR's and Ban appeals do is just make the person who it is on ganged up on, or excluded from the community, or when the community is being positive and trying to fight their corner, it just gives them false hope. At the end of the day a AR is a form of a /report when admins aren't on the server. And a ban appeal is a direct message to staff to apologise or dispute their ban in hope to be unbanned. Neither of these require are input, so why have it?

I know you guys want to put your opinion across on these things, but there are many other ways you can put your opinions across on matters regarding the community without posting on ban appeals/AR's.

 

[Fredy]

and changes affecting players get made without any discussion, input from players.

The change you are referring to mostly was obviously intended to make administrative duties easier as well as to prevent bandwaggoning and clearly biased opinions from cluttering up an AR. Most (80+%) AR replies are just saying things like
"He did the same thing to me a few days ago", "Opinion, -Support", "Opinion, +Support"
How are any of these statements even relevant to the AR since they clearly don't affect anything. I just want to make this very clear, your opinions really don't matter when it comes to ARs. AR's are not democratic. The decision is being made using facts from the provided evidence. This is why only people who were involved (who can provide such evidence) are allowed to post. I don't see how this doesn't just make perfect sense.

Issues arise that could of all been solved if players were consulted first.

Can you name any? Because I really can't remember any issues any of the rule changes caused.

 

[JC Denton]

Literally Walker. Walker is a peasant.

Spoiler: <00:11:44> "LEWIS 088"

Spoiler: PH revolution (relevant!!)

 

[MoronPipllyd]

I think we need an explaination from @MoronPipllyd about this really

I'm not sure what I can offer other than what's already been said in the other thread. I can assure you this idea has been in the works for a few weeks now and we did consider what effects it would have on the community and we concluded they weren't very opinionated as Jeffer's thread got one decent reply and a handful of rating. As Lewis said, all the sections where this rule has been applied are Administrative forums and their main purpose is to deal with Administrative situations, we didn't feel as though a community wide discussion was required. Simply put unless you were directly involved in the situation or have any kind of supporting evidence to provide there's not much truly constructive additions you can make to the thread. Sure there are a select few people out there giving their well justified opinions on Action requests etc, but honestly there are very very few situations where such a contribution has had any effect on the outcome of the AR. You could argue that people's response to Action Requests is a great way to evaluate rule knowledge and Enforcer eligibility, but truth is this isn't the only way to determine a user's rule knowledge and probably isn't the most effective either. I also don't see why everyone is against the idea of PMing a staff member? If I could get a clear answer to that question maybe we could get somewhere. For example if you're trying to demonstrate your rule knowledge and that you're eager to enforce them surely direct contact with an influential staff member is more effective than posting in an Action Request section they may or may not look at.

instead we see these announcements coming in out of no where and players disagree with or agree with them

I think this is quite an unfair comment considering the last Announcement made prior to this one was very flexible and changed multiple times within 24 hours of being posted due to user made suggestions, one from yourself walker (if I remember)

 

[MoronPipllyd]

On phone #soz

True but people still had points that I think could of been discussed beforehand, rather than the odd change here and there.

Thats what i cant get my head around, if you were all so strongly opinionated and had all these points to make why werent they expressed in the thread that was made. Had you expressed your concerns in that thread i would understand that you were passionate and opinionated about the subject. But with complete lack of input it seems to me like you don't really care about the new rule additions or posting in ARs and Ban Appeals and you're just trying to create some kind of mob mentality, its not the first time.

 

[Murtsley]

On behalf of the staff team:

 

[JC Denton]

On behalf of my Staff team comrades, thread locked.

When Walker gets banned...