Community Suggestion Helper ranks.

[Bnjemann]

Suggestion Title: Helper ranks.
Suggestion Description: The idea here is to add helper ranks.

The helper team is currently a part of the “Community” team, the only ranks within this team however are developers, Helpers and Community Managers.

In order to keep helpers around and not have them Jump ship to enforcer inevitably, Adding ranks to progress towards and downgrade to may help retain the helpers from jumping to more permissions.

Ideas for ranks include:
- Junior helper: Ideally, this would be the probation rank for helpers. They would just get the SCAM Menu for HandS reports.
- Helper: Current rank with all the existing permissions.
- Senior helper: Grants them access to Noclip, demote, Force sell, force surrender, bring, goto, and return. Should also hold job, Voice chat and text chat blacklist.
- Head helper: Should hold some enforcer permissions like kick, as well as grant extended props and admin chat. Would be in charge of helpers essentially, weighing in on helper applications and being a part of the decision of accepting or denying them, as well as possibly looking into helper complaints maybe?

Why should this be added?:
- The helpers can be a staff team with opportunities for progression without having to jump ship to enforcer when they want to progress.
- Viable candidates to fill all these positions exist already.
- More permissions so helpers can do HandS reports that currently may only be fulfilled by enforcers, such as situations you’d need to teleport to, such as people being stuck on chairs.

What negatives could this have?:
- More ranks?

 

[Exnem]

I personally agree with KeiwaM's points, and Lucius'.
I don't believe we need these ranks to be visible on the in-game scoreboard, but could certainly be shown on the forums or discord. Keeping it simple in-game will make it harder for people to get confused.
On the other hand. It may be difficult to know which helper has the appropriate rank when you make a report to receive help where only a senior helper can assist, such as being stuck in a chair.

I left the helper team earlier in 2019-2020 and I left some feedback for @Tyla Jai to read, which proposed an internal ranking system based on performance and trust. No idea if he fully read the thing because it was basically a wall of text, so can't exactly blame him for not doing so. But it proposed this in a similar fashion.

If we're going to be giving certain people Senior Helper, it's going to have to be towards people who show qualities of an Enforcer. As the permissions proposed are easily abused, and the Helper team is not as hard to get into as Enforcer is.

I do not believe the Head Helper rank is necessary as we have the Community Managers for that.

a helper is still not meant to enforce rules, but it should have certain permissions, like moving everyone's props/cars

It should be restricted to Senior Helper for this purpose.

 

[Jacko]

I agree with this but I don’t think we need multiple as stated above just junior and senior I would say as I feel that it should run the same kind of system as the admin team, it would be good to have it so that we have something to progress in. But as someone has stated I think we need to be able to go to people if they are stuck in props etc. I also feel that maybe we could have sell access especially when we have no staff on as it makes life easier for us.

 

[Tyla Jai]

Thanks Lucius and Jamie

If this was put in I don’t think it would need 4 either I think 2 would be sufficient, Helper and Senior Helper. The idea would be normal helper is similar to how it is now but senior helper would still have no ability to enforce rules but may have access to additional tools for helping such as no lip and teleport to go directly to players that need the support. It could also allow us to go back on our decision to allow helpers freedom in making events due to the amount of things that have gone wrong and instead give them the autonomy to run their own roleplay events with access to a temporary item spawn menu, return items to storage, prefabs, etc. This isn’t happening just because I’ve posted this but just to get feedback and ideas and general community view on it by upvote and downvote the main sugggestion.

 

[Ellie]

isn't senior helper just an enforcer at that point? Maybe weed out some inactive helpers first?

 

[Tyla Jai]

isn't senior helper just an enforcer at that point? Maybe weed out some inactive helpers first?

Ellie and anyone else reading I can almost guarantee we aren’t giving any rule enforcement permissions. What are your thoughts if we do this with only help related permissions as stated in my last reply before this?

 

[curak]

I don't believe we should give helpers temporary item pannel, there's already the rank of Event Helper for those situations. Giving it to a senior helper makes little to no sense, as they would have 24/7 access to it to build anything they'd like, giving them major advantages over others.

 

[Ellie]

Ellie and anyone else reading I can almost guarantee we aren’t giving any rule enforcement permissions. What are your thoughts if we do this with only help related permissions as stated in my last reply before this?

I mean go for it but I don't see the reason to add "Noclip, demote, Force sell, force surrender, bring, goto, and return" because those are used in rule enforcements or sits. In what situation would a helper need those permissions if not to enforce rules? That's almost every permission Enforcers have, and if people can do all of that without the need of dealing with reports and rule breaks everyone just gonna go for helper, not enforcer.

 

[Inchs]

I mean go for it but I don't see the reason to add "Noclip, demote, Force sell, force surrender, bring, goto, and return" because those are used in rule enforcements or sits. In what situation would a helper need those permissions if not to enforce rules? That's almost every permission Enforcers have, and if people can do all of that without the need of dealing with reports and rule breaks everyone just gonna go for helper, not enforcer.

I have to agree with Ellie, is helper a step to enforcer or not? Giving them these powers will make it seem like it is

 

[Lucius Husky]

I mean go for it but I don't see the reason to add "Noclip, demote, Force sell, force surrender, bring, goto, and return" because those are used in rule enforcements or sits. In what situation would a helper need those permissions if not to enforce rules? That's almost every permission Enforcers have, and if people can do all of that without the need of dealing with reports and rule breaks everyone just gonna go for helper, not enforcer.

I agree that the demote, force surrender, bring and return might be a bit much, but being able to goto someone that is stuck or has a hard time understanding something over a text F6 would be really beneficial. It would reduce the workload on staff that have to deal with people that are stuck or need basic help that requires for example noclip due to them being stuck in a tight space or something falling through the wall/map like a prop.

 

[Lucius Husky]

I have to agree with Ellie, is helper a step to enforcer or not? Giving them these powers will make it seem like it is

The Senior Helper rank should only be given to people that are actually trusted. Applying for enforcer is done alot already by people that have been helper for only a short while, though this is not an issue. Applying for enforcer should always be allowed but from what I know in admin meetings they dont look at you being helper or not, its about the skills you have shown/demonstrated.

I believe with a senior helper role/rank it could show a more dedicated helper team.

This would also allow for people that like helping but can't help alot due to a lack of permissions to not have to go for enforcer at all. I myself really enjoy helping people and I haven't really shown any sign of applying for enforcer for almost a year after I got helper, one of my main reasons to attempt to go for enforcer was that I couldn't help people most of the time due to them being stuck or requiring some sort of noclip assistance.

I remember trying to do help & supports but then having to ask in ./staff for people with noclip or prop permissions to step in anyway. Or me having to ask to be teleported to a new player to help him with doing something due to the communication in the F6 being very bad as the person in question perhaps didnt understand english too well.

 

[Jack Bruhross]

I don't understand why helpers need extra perms, Helpers are there to help players, not enforce rules. What would the need be for them to have noclip? I don't see a reason behind it. Same as these other perms. Force surrender, Force demote. The stuff is for staff members. when applying for helper people should not "want" to go for enforcer, And if they do they should just be denied. as @Google Chrome keeps saying all the helpers these days are 1, Inactive 2, Going for enforcer and trying to skip the rank 3, Just have it for the rank. Sort out the current helper team then itll be fine.

 

[Jake_]

I agree
Although some things that you get added as going up the helper ranks should not be there, Like mentioned above.
Noclip can be beneficial because if someone is needing help with something that you cannot explain over F6 it would be nice to have a quick way to get to them

 

[Lucius Husky]

I don't understand why helpers need extra perms, Helpers are there to help players, not enforce rules. What would the need be for them to have noclip? I don't see a reason behind it. Same as these other perms. Force surrender, Force demote. The stuff is for staff members. when applying for helper people should not "want" to go for enforcer, And if they do they should just be denied. as @Google Chrome keeps saying all the helpers these days are 1, Inactive 2, Going for enforcer and trying to skip the rank 3, Just have it for the rank. Sort out the current helper team then itll be fine.

You make good points! But as mentioned it is not for enforcing rules. Theres often situations where helpers cant do anything due to reasons listed above and then a enforcer/moderator or whatever has to step in which usually also takes some time due to the server being incredibly active.

I do agree that there is alot of helpers that are inactive, when I am online I see so many questions in ./help or ./ooc and like 3-4 helpers online but I am usually the only one to respond or with other non-helpers, I hardly see helpers reply when I am online myself.

I myself have made mistakes with abusing certain powers/permissions, even if it were by accident or on purpose. I have always believed that I should have been demoted for those mistakes at that time, and not to restrict helpers on perms. I was grateful that I wasn't demoted and I believe I had since then proved myself. But my point is that only trusted people should be given certain perms and abuse = gone.

 

[Inchs]

I don't understand why helpers need extra perms, Helpers are there to help players, not enforce rules. What would the need be for them to have noclip? I don't see a reason behind it. Same as these other perms. Force surrender, Force demote. The stuff is for staff members. when applying for helper people should not "want" to go for enforcer, And if they do they should just be denied. as @Google Chrome keeps saying all the helpers these days are 1, Inactive 2, Going for enforcer and trying to skip the rank 3, Just have it for the rank. Sort out the current helper team then itll be fine.

The 2nd and 3rd point don't matter though as long as they perform their duties as helper while they have it?

 

[Tyla Jai]

I mean go for it but I don't see the reason to add "Noclip, demote, Force sell, force surrender, bring, goto, and return" because those are used in rule enforcements or sits. In what situation would a helper need those permissions if not to enforce rules? That's almost every permission Enforcers have, and if people can do all of that without the need of dealing with reports and rule breaks everyone just gonna go for helper, not enforcer.

Noclip and Teleport have been heavily discussed in staff discussion before benefits include going to new players and proactively looking to support that way or going to help reports that require no rule enforcement such as people who are stuck or need somewhere sold or items returned to free up staff members

 

[curak]

Noclip and Teleport have been heavily discussed in staff discussion before benefits include going to new players and proactively looking to support that way or going to help reports that require no rule enforcement such as people who are stuck or need somewhere sold or items returned to free up staff members

I personally like the small reports of people that are stuck, needsomething sold or items returned, as it's a nice variation, on the otherwise quite similar reports we get.

 

[Lucius Husky]

I personally like the small reports of people that are stuck, needsomething sold or items returned, as it's a nice variation, on the otherwise quite similar reports we get.

It doesnt mean you cant deal with them anymore anyway, its just so that theres more staff open to do different things if needed.

 

[Aquaa]

going to help reports that require no rule enforcement such as people who are stuck or need somewhere sold or items returned to free up staff members

All of these examples take seconds to deal with, these things are not something that take away staff from actual rulebreak reports. I don’t like this idea in general tbh, they should be limited in perms and I don’t think they need much to do their job, + what @Ellie said about it potentially competing with Enforcer.

 

[Tyla Jai]

I personally like the small reports of people that are stuck, needsomething sold or items returned, as it's a nice variation, on the otherwise quite similar reports we get.

Nothing stops you doing them, the staff team regularly has 10 to 20 open reports due to the demand of high player count and this can be reduced with this suggestion. It’s regularly frowned upon when staff are being picky and taking these “easy” reports

 

[Lucius Husky]

All of these examples take seconds to deal with, these things are not something that take away staff from actual rulebreak reports. I don’t like this idea in general tbh, they should be limited in perms and I don’t think they need much to do their job, + what @Ellie said about it potentially competing with Enforcer.

Although you make a valid point Aquaa, its honestly a pain in the ass most of the time trying to deal with certain F6 help & support without the actual permissions. Its quite annoying to have to reply "I'll ask someone with 'permissions' to deal with it." Or something along those lines and then have those people wait while the helpers are there ready to help.