Police Suggestion Negotiations/Hostage Division

[Mxdium]

Brief description of idea: Have a new division named the Negotiations Divison or Hostage Division. Right now TFU has to handle hostage sits and most of them don't even know the definittion of negotiations. Having a negotiations division means hostage sits finally get taken care of properly.

People would apply like usual and then have scenarios where they are trained to negotiate with hostage takers and make sure all other officers are being communicated to properly. There have been countless hostage situations which ended in the hostage getting shot or the car with the hostage in it getting shot. Today we had a scenario exactly like this, it was accidental but it could've been prevented if there were proper communications.

This division would be a secondary division and officers ranked Corporal+ could apply for this. They would have actual training and maybe even some special tools but that is up to the developers and I don't really know what tools they should have.

What benefits would this idea have for the department:

• No more hostage situations going wrong.
• (For server) Less angry people and arguments in OOC.
• A new division people could join and have fun in.

What potential negatives could this have for the department:

• A lot of work before this can be implemented.
  • New policies have to be written.
  • More training has to be done.
  • Possible coding.
• New rank that requires administrative work aswell.

Other additions: Make @pingu command, he is the only Officer that has actually shown proper negotiations in the last few weeks and I truly believe he should be command if this happens.

I am also willing to put time and effort into this becoming a thing, it is just not fun doing Hostage Sits because you end up getting shot 9/10 times before you could even release the hostage.

If you vote No on the poll, please reply and explain exactly why and what you would want instead.

 

[Lelios1]

Kinda pointless to make a new division for it, just include some information regarding hostage situations on the handbook and include proper hostage situations and training on training sessions.

 

[Double J]

I like the idea, don't get me wrong, but I think it's too much to have a whole division for it. TFU are trained in this kind of stuff, if they are not doing it well, then report it to either @Aquaa or @Madda .

 

[pingu]

This would be a beneficial implementation providing that the hostage takers are actually willing to roleplay at a high standard. I have nothing against Tactical Firearms Unit members generally, nor anyone who has taken a hostage, or negotiated for the release of a hostage in the past, but most negotiations are botched and as @Synatec mentioned, almost always end in a shootout. If people would be willing to actually roleplay a negotiation properly instead of just using this as an excused to prolong a planned shootout, it'd be grand.

If it were to be a division, it should be called Crisis Negotiations, which will provide a dedicated team of crisis negotiation officers trained and trusted enough to take these situations seriously, showing competence, and so forth. Negotiations are always rushed, and if i'm being honest, TFU should prepare for a plan B in these situations. By having a TFU member take lead in negotiations, someone who is FIREARMS TRAINED, you're one man short. I'd rather have TFU plan an extraction or plan B competently rather than a tactical firearms officer negotiate for my release.

Crisis Negotiation can range from people attempting to leave a botched robbery, hostage negotiations, someone threatening violence (bomb threats) and so forth.


What makes a good negotiator?

someone who legitimately cares for the hostage taker and the hostage in this situation. Being genuine isn't manipulating the hostage taker or being condescending, but actually caring for everyone involved. Being honest, open. Hostage situations are tense, anxiety-filled and so forth, so to be a good negotiator you actually need to have the hostage as a priority not "bang bang, I want to arrest these suspects"

The above mentioned can't be taken into consideration when you have TFU negotiating your release. Of course they'll have another priority, of course they'll want to get you. It's alarming just having them on scene in these situations, you wouldn't have SCO19 or other armed police negotiating for your release in real life and it applies to perp too. TFU shouldn't be negotiating.

Let's stop trying to get these situations over and done with as fast as possible, and from an OOC perspective, actually applaud the attempt. 9/10 as an officer you get domed for literally no reason with no attempt to be taken hostage and then we have the audacity to wonder why. It's because even in negotiations you get snaked out by PLPD anyway, and i'm a cop main. Deal with these situations properly instead of trying to get finish it as soon as possible.


The Division

You don't necessarily have to make a new division with a whole new command team, just stick it under TacOps and have the TFU command run it, providing that recruitment is actually hand picked and not restricted to TFU officers. I cannot stress this enough, TFU shouldn't be negotiating, there definitely needs a dedicated team, regardless of how small, to deal with these situations. It goes for both sides, let's drag these out instead of trying to get it over and done with for that "epic win!" - Serious Roleplay Community, it isn't about winning or losing, or shouldn't be. If I wanted cops vs robbers i'd join it.

 

[CensoredExe]

Maybe having Hostage Training would be an idea, though, TFU are trained for it.

 

[nutrient10]

The idea is good I just think it would be completely unnecessary in my opinion, TFOs receive training in this area and if they seem incapable I would just PM @Aquaa about that officer, preferably with evidence. And as @Lelios1 said, it's probably a better idea for officers to be trained in this area, there is 4f in the handbook already which gives officers some information on how to approach these situations but nobody ever actually takes time to read the handbook. I would also make an internal affairs complaint if officers are failing to follow SOP from the handbook but the way to fix this is making this section more visible and actually train officers in areas such as this.

I just don't see this division having much of an impact at all I'm afraid, it would be very rarely used and somewhat pointless, the Tactical Firearms Unit exists for a reason and if a TFO isn't performing well you should just report them and they'll likely be retrained.

 

[pingu]

This isn't a complaint it's a suggestion. Read my post please and get back to me, taking into consideration my points made regarding TFU and negotiations. At the very least run it under TFU and have actually train these TFOs. Being in-gear and negotiating a release is alarming, you wouldn't want that in real life nor in perp. There's an ulterior motive. I don't see TFU holding a grip on hostage negotiations and crisis talk-downs being positive. They have another job to do. If there is absolutely nothing to be done, and this suggestion is to be denied, make sure TFU actually take these situations seriously. It's getting a bit ridiculous and I can understand why people are angry.

You're trained to win as TFU. That's grand and all fun and games when you're in a shootout or you're planning an extraction / breach (yet to see that RP), but that isn't a good mindset in hostage negotiations.

Why?

Because having an ulterior motive, applying pressure to an already tense situation where another person's life is in jeopardy will and always has ended badly. I am yet to see a hostage situation not be botched by TFU, with all due respect. And, if you do get that epic win, it's always snakey, always when the hostage taker is roleplaying and negotiating. Again, all fun and games and exactly what I expect from TFU, providing they are in the background planning a second option or when situations go terribly wrong, but absolutely horrible in actual RP attempts. It affects the entire PLPD, a domino effect. Now, you're lucky to be taken hostage because... what's the point? TFU will just kill you anyway. It's frustrating.

 

[Daigestive]

We have enough useless divisions that do virtually nothing. I see no need in something like this where people get paid in game funds monthly for doing almost nothing. This is something that could just be documented in resources if someone wasnt lazy enough to do it

 

[A1L]

Good suggestion, but will be a bit useless like @Daigestive said, it's not needed and can more than less just be done within TFU where they get properly trained and or a resource added on how to handle, there is some sort of guide on some-what how to handle these situations, but could be more in depth, and or possibly receive some training for it. Just see no need for a whole division for negotiations, disagree with me if you want but it's literally pointless when it could just come under TFU.

In my own personal opinion, for hostage negations, it's either someone shoots the hostage taker if they have a clear shot, and or actually role-play it, don't let me forget to mention this is practically a cops vs robbers server, barely any role-play happen within this anymore except shooting people treating this like a eSports, FPS Shooter type of shit. Don't get me wrong, it's a good suggestion but unneeded, can just be adapted within training in TFU or something similar, doesn't need a whole division with a command team that will probably hardly do jackshit.

TLDR - I agree with @Daigestive - Useless addition, however good suggestion but not needed, will just add more useless command when they're already trying to downsize the PD Command, just add it to addition to TFU. PERPHeads isn't what it used to be with all this role-play type of shit, yes TFU still negotiate and try to settle down with the hostage takers demands, but sometimes it's either cops going to shoot you, or the hostage taker(s) are going to shoot you down, end of.

This is cops vs robbers with hardly any role-play

 

[flugs]

I think TFU just needs to receive more training in this area, it's pretty pointless adding a whole new division.

 

[pingu]

Exactly. At least train TFU officers in actual deescalation tactics and genuine empathy for the hostage takers. Deal with negotiations properly. That makes a good negotiator. Put it this way mate, if you manipulate the hostage taker, or just shoot everyone, then a domino effect starts. No one even attempts to do a real hostage situation properly and if there is one, it's always botched. Gives the PLPD a bad name and "it's just cops vs robbers lol" isn't an excuse to be the problem itself. If everyone has given up, what's the point? People are trying to improve their roleplay. I know for a fact some members who will remain unnamed are fuming at the PLPD after trying to do a genuine hostage situation.

 

[pingu]

100% and I hope TFUTOs will take this into consideration and actually enforce a high standard of roleplay when it comes to the division. My name being added to the suggestion makes it look like a power grab, I need to emphasize that this isn't the case. A shift in mindset would perhaps be more beneficial than adding an entirely new division to the PLPD. Simply take these situations seriously, as TFU, gamers should stop trying to win every situation and come out on top. Prioritize the life of the other character and serious roleplay. Train TFU on better negotiation tactics and people skills. That is all a negotiator is. Someone who can deescalate a situation, act as a mediator in a very stressful and intense situation. Right now, TFU is falling short of the aforementioned. It pains me to call TFU gamers out like this, I just want it to improve lads.

 

[A1L]

The same people who fume at trying to give the PLPD a genuine hostage situations are the same people who most of the time ruin the hostage situations, unsure if the hostage situations has changed since I've been on once in the past 2 weeks, but it's the truth.

I said its just cops vs robbers, cause that's what PERP has turned into over the past few years, there is hardly any proper role-play only when people want this Roleplay Acknowledge Award on the forums, that's when you start seeing people do proper role-play, not because people want to do it, people play PERP more than less mainly for this sort of shit, cops vs robbers, TFU can try to fix up on the hostage negotiations but I'd like to see how that goes.

 

[pingu]

110%. This isn't an "we hate TFU" post, I appreciate a lot of the lads in the division do take these situations seriously but that play to win mentality, which as you said, is PERP at this point, more or less ends in disaster. If that is the case just go on as usual, if roleplay is that dire then there's no real point to be honest mate. At the very most TFU should be trained. I'm not TFU however, probably will never attempt to be, so it may be unfounded. The plea is coming from an outsider looking in.

 

[Jack P]

Well.. Some places In real Life they have negotatiators, but some places it's S.E.R.T/S.W.A.T who negotiate, or a high ranking police officer. But it seems like a fine idea.

 

[Sneaky]

i too cannot wait to have a whole aspect of roleplay taken over by a bunch of buffoons with lackluster training

 

[Aquaa]

I have a similar idea to exclusive groups being added within TFU that offer benefits for officers who are at a prestigious level of skill. This was an idea I had a while ago aswell so I’ll see what Madda and everyone else think about it

 

[CensoredExe]

Add the ability to apply for hostage training for example, I’d like that idea

 

[Mxdium]

Senior TFU

 

[Deleted member 6228]

super tfu officer