What makes you enjoy PVP

[Arkvolin]

we stopped expecting pvpers to do any form of RP at all during their pvp escapades and that has created a culture of pure competitive pvp with no regard to other players experiences

i feel like everytime i try to communicate with one i either get called some slur for no reason or they dont say a word and run to their gwagon

 

[Creepis]

It's frustrating on many levels because:
-You get Ferrari peeked because of ping difference, giving peekers a huge advantage with almost no time to react.
-^tick rate on high population.
-There is an established meta for guns (HK HK45CT, AK-47/101, SCAR-L, MP9 as well as AS50) with almost no variety or gun balance to introduce new and interesting ways to play. When did you last see someone use a Remington 870 (and the Short variant), Makarov or FAMAS?
-Constant PD raids because someone just managed to hear a /y 10 TOES from some guy already being 10 meters below the earth due to the range of /yell and how it works.
-Top orgs are allied with each other.
-Massive sightline bases are really boring to play or raid against (Foundry for example)
-Forest shootouts are also pretty meh due to tree's obscuring less of your vision as the branches and leaf's are positioned higher.
-Adjusted weapon scopes/attachments made some combinations like M16A4+PMOII scope almost unusable as the sight is now covering your entire screen which will need developer attention to fix or revert, who knows when that will happen.


I honestly can't think of a single good thing but it keeps drawing us back so there's something to it?

 

[Charles Kensington]

I enjoy the Black screens i get

 

[StephenPuffs]

While I will be the first to say there could be ways to improve PVP to be possibly less cumbersome, people are also saying people can peek too fast as it is, so I'm not sure there's really any win scenario here.

Hitreg, there might be slight things that could be done differently that may make it better which I would need to toy with to see what it would take to do. But I have no guarantees of that fixing anything.

Yes I keep forgetting to revert a few parts of the zoom stuff with sights. But I should be able to do that later tonight or at least by the start of next week. Sorry for the inconvenience presently, it's just annoying how each gun is more or less uniquely shaped so a universal system will occasionally be a bit glitchy for some but not all. (Part of the problem with trying to get them to align with the cross hairs).

I get there are certain meta guns, but I'm not sure how we can do much about that. As I both understand why they are but also I'm not entirely sure how we can make it so every gun is appealing either. In most competitive shooters, either
A) there are limited guns but each one is unique so there are reasons to choose them or
B) there are a lot of choices but there is no real difference so it's purely aesthetic.
Plus they alter the damage and stuff to match. While a lot of our guns were based on the crafting system so you could unlock what we felt were "better" ones as you rank that up. We also decided to try to make it fair that each caliber would be its own statistic so that way each one of that type would be similar and not have a low crafting level 9mm be garbage compared to a high level 9mm. (We also debated the topic of making each caliber its own ammo box type.). This was intended to also help make diversity a more appealing option but maybe this is not working as intended as it once did.

It seems a lot of the complaints about PVP are also based on who it is raiding or starting the PVP situations. Large orgs are both very fun to be part of but it also makes it so smaller ones or solo individuals have very little chance. Other than making a very reduced cap on how many people can be in an org, this is not an easy thing to control, but even that would result in orgs just raiding collectively. I was thinking the other day that, even if we added more plants, that were legal to grow albeit less profitable, people will still raid them like there's no tomorrow so it's just difficult to develop around too. Because if we said you cannot raid to take those, how does anyone get proof of when they could raid? If we made some sort of tool that could determine what was inside and raidable, that would be quite OP but it would reduce unnecessary raids.

People complain about criminals always being nerfed in some way or another but how would we buff them either? I don't want criminal behavior to be impossible but it also is criminals that make criminal behavior impossible, so what do? Sure there are things that police get that make it harder for people to do criminal things and I understand how much that can suck but if basing is a constant issue due to the amount of nonstop raids, how can we fix this? Simply reducing the amount of raids a group can do solves very little. Speeding up grow times simply makes growing too easy when no one is. Adding more things both legal or illegal inside a property may be fun for variety but it doesn't change the PVP aspect.

Overall I want PVP to be a reasonably fun experience but at the same time as this is not a death match type gamemode, we cannot have people run and gun more than they do already nor can we expect quick respawns when you do lose.

 

[Ashur]

People complain about criminals always being nerfed in some way or another but how would we buff them either? I don't want criminal behavior to be impossible but it also is criminals that make criminal behavior impossible, so what do?

Criminal behaviour should be hard though?
Choosing to be a criminal is something that should be considered high risk, high reward, high tier guns are not necessarily things that should be obtained easily.

People are too used to all these things they already have, or are quite easy to obtain, yet these are all things that shouldn't be easily obtainable.
How can people expect you to buff something, that doesn't need a buff.

It would be great to see a criminal update that forces people to RP, yet the downside of this, on PERP it would need to be regulated and enforced by rules and guidelines.
I would personally enjoy a bank robbery, with hostage sits and pursuits rather than just shooting, the thrill of escape, whether you lost the police or not is very exciting, this also gives more purpose to police (RTU) rather than just dying.

Cant expect people to stop raiding and fighting police, this is normal, but just PVP is not what the server is intended for

 

[Clarky]

I get there are certain meta guns, but I'm not sure how we can do much about that.

Make the guns that feel shit to shoot/feel better, I don't understand why such guns like the M4 has unnecessary harsh recoil when the Scar is cheaper yet shoots like a laser and hell even the 74u is really cheap and feels infinitely better to use than something that costs double its price. Some guns have broken/bad animations like the luger reloading, sako shooting looks terrible (previous dev already fixed this animation as mentioned in the past, it was leaked, looked much cleaner but never got pushed), what about a implementation of speed reloaders to make revolvers more of a viable option? It's so boring and stale seeing the same shit used, a lil extra variety is needed. I understand that different guns can have different 'means' and better as you progress but that's just really lame larp, I don't think anyone is too arsed about all of that just so long they get to play with guns that literally isn't a ak, scar or some sniper that'll shred (looking at you m14..). Also a personal pet peeve, I fucking hate that pressing ALT even if you are stood still just cancels reloading, if there could be a setting to not do that and just carry on reloading and instead set max speed when pressing ALT to move at jogging speed during the reload duration.

Just put some more time into fixing up and switching up guns (with that being said don't nerf shit into the fkn ground like whoever did with the m4), they never get touched for a purpose like this which contributes to the stale environment a lot of people feel bc it all adds up. I could probably keep going on about what could be done to guns here but I'll leave it as that for now zzz

 

[StephenPuffs]

@Clarky
The ALT thing I can look at addressing probably easily as I think it's fair to say currently it's not the best way to handle anti-sprinting.

In terms of recoil, it's not so much that the M4 has increased recoil, it just has an insanely higher fire rate so it feels more intense in a shorter amount of time. (I will post a video of this later on my profile.) Thus making the SCAR easier to keep pulled down. In terms of animations, I would love to make it so all guns have less recoil visually as well. Unfortunately this is a bit outside my wheelhouse and while I could do it, it probably is better suited to someone else. I have plenty of other things I am making and coding simultaneously currently. The "leak" you speak of was more likely a sample to see how it would function in a real example. The Luger was never truly finished or ready to be added but some people saw content and decided it should get added so it was. (Same reason I feel certain cars were too)

Speed loaders have been a consideration but as stated, it would require a bunch of new things to be made/redone. So again, it's a matter of priorities and I'm sorry to say but changing how revolvers are is not my priority but I wouldn't stop someone capable of doing it.

 

[Dekkrior]

my unpopular opinion is that i'd like TTK to be higher, much higher to lower the skill ceiling and raise the floor. A big part of that is because i'm kinda ass at shootouts but 99% of the time my experience is "Be in shootout adjacent situation, See Red screen", if I'm lucky maybe I see the person before they shoot me. Granted, the only time i'm ever in them are when sweaters are around and someone's given them a free gun or as a pistol cop. The repeating cycle of "try to do something not shooting related as cop, get called to a bank/pd/base raid every 5 minutes, experience red screen when I get within 250m of the location" is just honestly draining. I fully respect that other players skill is important, and quite frankly am not suggesting it be changed because the way it is is a big part of why so many people play. It would just be nice if players who weren't very skilled weren't effectively deleted from the situation to function entirely as a life alert to tell skilled players they need to take action. I'm pretty much only saying this though because I'm sure someone else has the same opinion and it'd be nice to know i'm not the only one.

TLDR: I don't like the high TTK high skill floor gunplay, but understand most people do and am not asserting that my preferences should necessarily be accomodated by changing the gameplay for others.

PS: again, i know i'm shit at gunplay and respect other players skill, it's just frustrating that by virtue of being shit i'm severely restricted in what I can do (Mainly trying to play police without dying constantly, even when trying to stay out of shootout situations)

 

[SomeUser]

@Clarky
The ALT thing I can look at addressing probably easily as I think it's fair to say currently it's not the best way to handle anti-sprinting.

In terms of recoil, it's not so much that the M4 has increased recoil, it just has an insanely higher fire rate so it feels more intense in a shorter amount of time. Thus making the SCAR easier to keep pulled down. In terms of animations, I would love to make it so all guns have less recoil visually as well. Unfortunately this is a bit outside my wheelhouse and while I could do it, it probably is better suited to someone else. I have plenty of other things I am making and coding simultaneously currently. The "leak" you speak of was more likely a sample to see how it would function in a real example. The Luger was never truly finished or ready to be added but some people saw content and decided it should get added so it was. (Same reason I feel certain cars were too)

Speed loaders have been a consideration but as stated, it would require a bunch of new things to be made/redone. So again, it's a matter of priorities and I'm sorry to say but changing how revolvers are is not my priority but I wouldn't stop someone capable of doing it.

If u don't mind me saying tho mate, thats part of the issue.

You have people screaming about new content, we all want new stuff, i understand again devs are not paid, but they have been part of the community for some time they should see what issues inlie, and should use there talents to help, Hell im sure half the community have a secret talent like I know i made a bunch of models before i know @teby can program, and theres plenty more that i cant remember / have not mentioned

We want new things, sure peeps did the map and continues to work on the map / maps, but that all it feels like we got, which again not a small feet but no new jobs no new weapons to play with, you have the models for pepper spray in the content packs still (I think) And it feels like we are completely just out of things to do raiding wise. Also this is not to say i know what makes the server not by a long shot but in all honesty we can ask if that makes sense.

 

[StephenPuffs]

If u don't mind me saying tho mate, thats part of the issue.

You have people screaming about new content, we all want new stuff, i understand again devs are not paid, but they have been part of the community for some time they should see what issues inlie, and should use there talents to help, Hell im sure half the community have a secret talent like I know i made a bunch of models before i know @teby can program, and theres plenty more that i cant remember / have not mentioned

We want new things, sure peeps did the map and continues to work on the map / maps, but that all it feels like we got, which again not a small feet but no new jobs no new weapons to play with, you have the models for pepper spray in the content packs still (I think) And it feels like we are completely just out of things to do raiding wise. Also this is not to say i know what makes the server not by a long shot but in all honesty we can ask if that makes sense.

I can't speak for all devs but we each have very different skill sets in terms of what we are capable of doing. Plus things like changing a recoil animation while it sounds simple in theory, may take at least a few weeks of learning how to properly do the key framing in Blender and then QC setup for Source (of which the documentation is often less than helpful) so it can take awhile before there's even potential progress. Some devs may want to take the time to learn that and others may not, partially because its their personal preference or what they simply have the time to do.

I personally have been busy trying to get some of our existing things to be in a better state via QoL or small additions to how they function. I'm sure many of our staff can attest that a number of things on their end have been improved over the last few months. So it's not things most players will see directly but it does aid in getting accurate information while handling any report that comes in. In addition to that, I have been trying to get other fun stuff out for people to enjoy, such as the current WC26 confetti cannons. Along with some other parts that cannot be revealed quite yet.

Then we also have some devs working on finding and patching exploits before they're used on a large scale. Thank you to all users who also report these as they find them, rather than using them themselves, you know who you are.

As noted Peeps has been doing a great job with map stuff and that alone can take some of our dev team to help there too. So it's constantly to the point that we're always stretched a bit thin in terms of what can be made quickly. Could it be better? Maybe, but we're not trying to force people into feeling this is a job on its own. We want staff and players to be able to enjoy PH in all aspects.

 

[Crunchie]

I don't understand why such guns like the M4 has unnecessary harsh recoil

I personally think that the m4 is fine as it is

Cheating usually is a sign of boredom.

Yes and frustration at certain aspects of the server

 

[SomeUser]

I can't speak for all devs but we each have very different skill sets in terms of what we are capable of doing. Plus things like changing a recoil animation while it sounds simple in theory, may take at least a few weeks of learning how to properly do the key framing in Blender and then QC setup for Source (of which the documentation is often less than helpful) so it can take awhile before there's even potential progress. Some devs may want to take the time to learn that and others may not, partially because its their personal preference or what they simply have the time to do.

I personally have been busy trying to get some of our existing things to be in a better state via QoL or small additions to how they function. I'm sure many of our staff can attest that a number of things on their end have been improved over the last few months. So it's not things most players will see directly but it does aid in getting accurate information while handling any report that comes in. In addition to that, I have been trying to get other fun stuff out for people to enjoy, such as the current WC26 confetti cannons. Along with some other parts that cannot be revealed quite yet.

Then we also have some devs working on finding and patching exploits before they're used on a large scale. Thank you to all users who also report these as they find them, rather than using them themselves, you know who you are.

As noted Peeps has been doing a great job with map stuff and that alone can take some of our dev team to help there too. So it's constantly to the point that we're always stretched a bit thin in terms of what can be made quickly. Could it be better? Maybe, but we're not trying to force people into feeling this is a job on its own. We want staff and players to be able to enjoy PH in all aspects.

oh agree, again banned for 3 months so i not really seen the improvements because u know banned lmao, But again im not shitting on any of the devs they deserve to play, but i know as a community, alot of people would want to pitch in, for example again teby ik does that stuff because of the work he did with demos and having a useable UI that don't suck complete ass. Again that being said being trustworthy is part of that, but i know if you where to state i want this we want anyone got any ideas im sure people would leverage there experiese in diffrent areas to help out

 

[Sapire]

Giving criminals significant buffs wouldn't make any sense at the end of the day its an RP server based on cops and criminals, Cops should win more than criminals and have an advantage against criminals especially when they communicate and strategize properly the same way it is in real life. If criminals have an advantage against police then the server just turns into crim vs crim chaos. Police also help to balance out and fight back against larger groups and are a deterent that protects smaller groups who do decide to base. As others have said in this post crime should be hard and a big risk. I honestly think with the exception of bank robberies, most experienced players have little to no fear of police responding to them and either killing them or arresting them. While I understand spending 10 minutes in Jail isnt fun, its 2026 and you can always tab out and/or use a cellular device, I also think this same problem negativly affects PD as players are less likely to want to play PD when its a black screen Sim most of the time and it feels like theres nothing you can do as a cop with a pistol vs 8 people with AKs or some other assualt rifle. Like what new player when they load into the server and sees all the cool unique mechanics and systems on perp after doing the tutorial wants to be stuck with a pistol most of the time riding on there own when they can just walk around and meet people at bazaar and buy an assualt rifle and have much more freedom.

 

[StephenPuffs]

Giving criminals significant buffs wouldn't make any sense at the end of the day its an RP server based on cops and criminals, Cops should win more than criminals and have an advantage against criminals especially when they communicate and strategize properly the same way it is in real life. If criminals have an advantage against police then the server just turns into crim vs crim chaos. Police also help to balance out and fight back against larger groups and are a deterent that protects smaller groups who do decide to base. As others have said in this post crime should be hard and a big risk. I honestly think with the exception of bank robberies, most experienced players have little to no fear of police responding to them and either killing them or arresting them. While I understand spending 10 minutes in Jail isnt fun, its 2026 and you can always tab out and/or use a cellular device, I also think this same problem negativly affects PD as players are less likely to want to play PD when its a black screen Sim most of the time and it feels like theres nothing you can do as a cop with a pistol vs 8 people with AKs or some other assualt rifle. Like what new player when they load into the server and sees all the cool unique mechanics and systems on perp after doing the tutorial wants to be stuck with a pistol most of the time riding on there own when they can just walk around and meet people at bazaar and buy an assualt rifle and have much more freedom.

I still don't think we should classify the server as police vs criminals. It isn't and wasn't ever the sole focus of the server at any point. And I think it diminishes the idea that anyone playing as police alone is RPing. This fact seems to often be ignored or not acknowledged unfortunately.

That said, it is a major component of what takes place on the server. Often times I feel accelerated into unnecessary gunfights, because sadly dying can be preferable than taking a jail sentence. But to focus on the topic of this thread which is PVP, yes pistol cops have a disadvantage, but that is by design. As it both provides balance for criminals to have more ability to do their thing but it also potentially makes it harder to abuse using your firearm as police.

Honestly I think we are approaching the need for better ways to determine how raids can work or be done. Because at both peak times and low pop, I have watched some individuals get raided back to back to back without a single moment to even really get started with their base. And like I stated, if we did add some legal plants or things to do within a property, people would still raid and disrupt that. So I can see people wanting new features but how do we address those problems? As they would just get exacerbated if we made more features that put people into residences.

 

[Toby_]

The ping

 

[Sapire]

I still don't think we should classify the server as police vs criminals. It isn't and wasn't ever the sole focus of the server at any point. And I think it diminishes the idea that anyone playing as police alone is RPing. This fact seems to often be ignored or not acknowledged unfortunately.

That said, it is a major component of what takes place on the server. Often times I feel accelerated into unnecessary gunfights, because sadly dying can be preferable than taking a jail sentence. But to focus on the topic of this thread which is PVP, yes pistol cops have a disadvantage, but that is by design. As it both provides balance for criminals to have more ability to do their thing but it also potentially makes it harder to abuse using your firearm as police.

Honestly I think we are approaching the need for better ways to determine how raids can work or be done. Because at both peak times and low pop, I have watched some individuals get raided back to back to back without a single moment to even really get started with their base. And like I stated, if we did add some legal plants or things to do within a property, people would still raid and disrupt that. So I can see people wanting new features but how do we address those problems? As they would just get exacerbated if we made more features that put people into residences.

I think the ways to prevent people from raiding a bunch of times especially the same people is by making it harder to do in general and giving the defenders a bigger advantage, I think this will just lead to people opting to just either not raid or raid a lot less though as it already can be high risk for low reward to pull of a raid depending on whats actually inside.

The more realistic solution is either to increase raid cooldown overall or increase raid cool down for raiding the same base even more, I think this is a much more realistic change since it doesnt require much dev time and would lean more into staff time but it runs the risk of people just playing less because unfortunatley theres a chunk of the playerbase that really only cares about PVP/Raiding and raiding is the main source of PVP atm. So for the players who have no use for basing themselves and making money since they have everything they want already, They would most likely simply not play the server as much unless something else for them to do was added.

I do think that the hassle of basing(setting up defenses, defending raids, planting seeds and having to sit in the base and wait) compared to the ease of raiding which can be as easy as buying a couple of crowbars and a gun and some ammo is part of the problem as well. On top of it all half of the time you end up defending a raid and the police come and confiscate the guns so your actually ending up net negative after the whole situation due to losing your ammo and meds and potentially time if you have to be revived or fix props from a bomb going off. I think this is part of the reason some long time players either dont base at all or dont do it as much since its just way easier to be the one raiding and you arent locked into being stuck in a base.

 

[Nova.]

I still don't think we should classify the server as police vs criminals.

That's literally how it's been feeling the last 3 years

 

[flnfreedomf1ghter]

It's frustrating on many levels because:
-You get Ferrari peeked because of ping difference, giving peekers a huge advantage with almost no time to react.
-^tick rate on high population.
-There is an established meta for guns (HK HK45CT, AK-47/101, SCAR-L, MP9 as well as AS50) with almost no variety or gun balance to introduce new and interesting ways to play. When did you last see someone use a Remington 870 (and the Short variant), Makarov or FAMAS?
-Constant PD raids because someone just managed to hear a /y 10 TOES from some guy already being 10 meters below the earth due to the range of /yell and how it works.
-Top orgs are allied with each other.
-Massive sightline bases are really boring to play or raid against (Foundry for example)
-Forest shootouts are also pretty meh due to tree's obscuring less of your vision as the branches and leaf's are positioned higher.
-Adjusted weapon scopes/attachments made some combinations like M16A4+PMOII scope almost unusable as the sight is now covering your entire screen which will need developer attention to fix or revert, who knows when that will happen.


I honestly can't think of a single good thing but it keeps drawing us back so there's something to it?

The thing is, maybe Hitreg and Peekers advantage are the only things that make the balance here. and we are here complaining about them. if we had perfect hit reg and perfect audio everyone would be mainly crim which i think will kill the server no? so to see people join the server to mainly play cops vs robbers with all of this problems that means that something else.

and also unrelated. the role play player base became like a gated community now because nobody is open to role play with others they just join to meet with their boy friends to afk inbazaar or base with the esports orgs that zerg with each other.

 

[Clarky]

@StephenPuffs Thanks for your reponse

The ALT thing I can look at addressing probably easily as I think it's fair to say currently it's not the best way to handle anti-sprinting.

My only consensus is people might've adjusted to how it is now but it does look and feel rather clunky so if this can be done as a F1 menu gameplay option so people have a choice of style then that'd be great, muscle memory has really done me in with instinctively pressing ALT all the time lol

In terms of recoil, it's not so much that the M4 has increased recoil, it just has an insanely higher fire rate so it feels more intense in a shorter amount of time. (I will post a video of this later on my profile.) Thus making the SCAR easier to keep pulled down.

I understand your point, it does shoot quicker thus will have more of a kick, would you look into making any kind of adjustments to where you could have the recoil be less intense? It is considerably one of my favourite weapons to use and is a oldie but goldie amongst players during the marksmanship levelling era so giving it some rejuvenation to fit with the server today is something I really encourage you should look into, other weapons along can come along the way too as they do obviously contribute to the core experience. Some guns just simply outperform a much more expensive gun which I've always found it a little off for years so it's nice to at least address something here.

I would love to make it so all guns have less recoil visually as well. Unfortunately this is a bit outside my wheelhouse and while I could do it, it probably is better suited to someone else. I have plenty of other things I am making and coding simultaneously currently. The "leak" you speak of was more likely a sample to see how it would function in a real example. The Luger was never truly finished or ready to be added but some people saw content and decided it should get added so it was.

The real example just looked really good, I highly encourage someone with such capability to do such changes to explore into this more and we can get some nice changes and some fixes along the way too like for the luger sight coming up after reload (so glad you guys added that pistol anyways it's funny to see an army of DoD WW2 soldiers equipped with them on halloween).

Speed loaders have been a consideration but as stated, it would require a bunch of new things to be made/redone. So again, it's a matter of priorities and I'm sorry to say but changing how revolvers are is not my priority but I wouldn't stop someone capable of doing it.

That was a curveball suggestion tbh, I only bring it up because you'd find it to be a default necessity with revolvers in most shooter games but what I could at least try to suggest is you speed up some of the revolver animations a bit if possible in code as not only an alternative solution but a good change too. Obviously you'd need the feedback from the other staff and community members beforehand if anything were to happen for the most part but I hope it gives some ideas on what you could do on your end should be possibility.

Then we also have some devs working on finding and patching exploits before they're used on a large scale. Thank you to all users who also report these as they find them, rather than using them themselves, you know who you are.

You're welcome