AR on @Jammi and @Nade

[moD]

Your Steam/In-game Name: _moD / Jerry Cornelli
His/Her Steam/In-game Name: Jammi and Nade
His/Her SteamID: Nade: STEAM_0:0:76440963 Jammi: STEAM_0:1:53115398
Why Should This Player Be Punished: 2.5 and 3.4
Both of these players have been actively targeting me. They've tried and steal my car on 4 different occasions for absolutely no reason, trying to bait me several times into retaliating by calling the cops or by getting into a gunfight.

First incident: Nade had pissed me off by pushing my Tesla out of it's parking space. I returned it back into the parking by pushing his van out the way and he decided to shoot my tires out and tell me to not do it again. I went into my storage to grab an AK to kill him and I end up getting killed by his org member, which is fine. I ended up raging at him in OOC, to which I then apologized for.

Second incident: Nade and Jammi claimed they needed my car to escape a ongoing shootout, and when I called the cops he ended up killing me as he claimed he was already facing 10 years.

Third incident: Nade sat in my open shop (which was only open because I didn't want to get mugged while crafting) for at least 15 minutes. Afterwards; he proceeds to mug me in my shop while Jammi lockpicks my car for a 3rd time. By this point, I believe I'm being targeted. I send Nade a steam message, apologizing for raging at him in OOC, hoping that this would stop and that we could just be civil about the situation.

Fourth incident: Jammi lockpicks my car and gets in. I pull out my phone and begin to text 911. All of a sudden he comes out of the car, not even attempting to say anything to me and breaks 3.4 by killing me. During the sit we had with Super, Jammi claimed he wanted to drive a Tesla for a bit as no one else in the city had one for him to take. Clearly; his org member is sitting in a Tesla right next to mine w/ 4 other individuals, which he could have easily taken for a test drive.

I really hope that someone gets banned from this. It's very obvious that these guys are being extremely toxic towards me and are trying to trigger me. I think it's fairly obvious that although this type of play is not outline as against the rules, it's common sense to be 2.5. It's very clear to me that these players intend to impede me from enjoying the server, which I do not take very lightly. I spend my free time on the server to have fun and I don't appreciate being harassed for absolutely no reason besides the enjoyment of other players.

I'm going to upload the first two incidents soon
Evidence (Demo Required):
Me apologizing to Nade:


2nd incident:

3rd incident: Nade sitting in my shop, waiting to mug me:

Jammi attempting to steal my car while I'm being mugged:

4th incident:

Tick:

 

[Jamal]

we had a sit about this being "2.5 and 3.4" you'd been told that it wasn't 2.5. Me and nade literally mug and steal everyones shit it's not just you. If you feel like you're being targeted just don't play if you can't handle it this is the internet after all. Mugging and stealing cars have rules on them which we haven't broke it you're own fault for putting yourself into these situations where you allow yourself to get mugged. you can easily stop people from stealing your car too by adding car security. Idk why you've made an AR after all these situations have been dealt with in game sir

 

[moD]

As I said I don't think staff actually realized what you'd been doing so I thought I'd upload the demos just to be safe.

 

[Husky]

As someone who is directly involved with these two players on about 90% of their IC decisions I'd like to point out this isn't specifically targeting yourself, Nade and Jamal have gained a reputation throughout the org of raiding and mugging anyone and everyone. @Bean Can is a good example of this, rule 2.5 does not cover yourself as unfortunately its newer players and someone who drives a $3m+ car I'd consider you experienced.

It's a shame seeing things resort to OOC disputes but I understand it can be frustrating when being destroyed IC, a shame from someone who claimed to be able to fight their own battles. Regardless of the situation I'm sure staff will make the correct decision regarding this, the 3.4 sit is whatever, wasn't there for it. Best of luck.

 

[moD]

Husky come on. They've tried or have taken my car 4 times in 2 days. Out of those 4 times, they've used my Tesla once. This is clearly an excuse to try and bait me to act icly in some way. @Bean Can is a completely different story. If I was an easy raid and I had something to lose that another player could gain, I'd completely understand, such as guns, drugs, etc. I have nothing to lose in this situation. As you can see in the 4th incident, I'm literally talking to a friend about guns when all of a sudden Jammi comes around and starts to lock pick my Tesla because he wants to "test drive" it, because apparently no one else in your org has a Tesla to test drive. When I begin to call the cops, he doesn't even try to drive off with the car he just stole, he gets out and guns me down.

 

[Husky]

Taking a car 4x in 2 days when they have spent probably 16 hours between those 2 days to me is so minor, Jamal would have used this as an excuse due to him not knowing if you are armed.

You can buy a security upgrade for what? 500$ or something, if it was such an issue then you should have thought of this. The rules state nowhere they can’t harass another player IC unfortunately, the only rule break in question is Jamals 3.4 which I’m not going to even bother looking into.

Stealing cars is a very easy way to start a shootout, I can only assume he did it for this. Regardless, I don’t believe nade should even be mentioned within the AR as it seems your main issues lay with Jamal.

// any spelling mistakes I’m on Phone smh

 

[Adrish]

Hey there,

I was involved in 2 of these situations, so I was hoping I'd provide some insight into the situation(s).

Firstly, I'd like to speak about the rules that you have reported them under, 2.5 and 3.4

2.5 Excessive Negativity
Players may not excessively impact the experience of others in a negative manner, unless the actions are a proportionate escalation of negative actions that have been performed against the original player.

For example, it is not acceptable to:
Intentionally mug and targeting new players.
Destroy valuable items due to basic distaste such as product prices.
Killing a player over verbal insults, minor or accidental actions.
Killing a player after mugging them because they’ve seen your identity.
Intentionally steal a car to wreck it without any valid reason.

The rule states, as seen above, that players may not excessively impact the experience of others in a negative manner, unless you've done something to Jamal/Nade. This rule itself, is quite harsh but still quite undeveloped in my opinion. It's quite broad and I don't think it applies here. You were mugged, once. Your car was stolen, once. All in the space of what? Around 5 hours time (from the demo times so correct me if wrong)? To me it seems quite normal, 5 hours is a long time and between mugging you, i'm sure they've been raiding other people and mugging other people. If everyone made a report on someone who mugged them once and stole there car once in the space of 5 whole hours, it's be quite petty to be honest. I understand you feel targeted, and you come on to have fun. This is all part of PERP, whether you like it or not. It's something you need to accept will happen. I'm not sure if you're just upset that you got mugged and lost items, which is understandable, or if you genuinely dislike these players.

Let me also remind you that the person who mugged you, is a totally different person to who stole your car. They are both good players, and if you talk to them I'm sure you can come to an agreement.

3.4 Putting your Life at Risk
Any actions taken by a player that may put their In-Character life, freedom from imprisonment or general well being at risk must be done so in a realistic fashion and for beneficial reasons.

This rule is specifically relevant to the violation of any In-Character law, meaning that murders, thefts, etc, are all expected to be conducted realistically;

A common example of an unreasonable risk would be for a player to murder a Police Officer in order to avoid receiving a traffic ticket. The risk involved with the murder of a Police Officer is typically grossly disproportionate to the benefit of avoiding a traffic ticket. Another example would be for a player to walk on the highway without a justifiable reason.

I agree to an extent, that you could argue this rule was broken. However, Jamal was wanted as he so claimed and you were calling the Police on him. Yes, he could've drove away as soon as he got in rather than 'teasing' you, however from a criminals perspective, you are putting his life at risk by calling the Police, and if the Police were to arrive he'd be arrested for 10 years, which is enough to kill the whole police force over. So, it's either a whole Police force, or one man. This is quite iffy, however I feel @Jamal could provide some sort of apology for not taking other actions before killing you and that could be the end of this. But these are one of those things that can be argued both ways.

Furthermore, you stated @Super_ dealt with the situation, or even spoke about it so maybe @Super_ could provide more insight into what happened in the sit and if you guys came to any conclusions?

Now i'm going to talk about the situations individually.

First incident: Nade had pissed me off by pushing my Tesla out of it's parking space. I returned it back into the parking by pushing his van out the way and he decided to shoot my tires out and tell me to not do it again. I went into my storage to grab an AK to kill him and I end up getting killed by his org member, which is fine. I ended up raging at him in OOC, to which I then apologized for.

You said that he pushed your Tesla out of it's parking space and then you proceeded to ram his van out of the way. From an honest perspective, this seems a bit, 'mingey', is what I'd say. Then he proceeded to pop your tires, as would be appropriate for someone ramming into his van then you went and got an AK and was killed by his org member, followed by some toxicity in OOC. I understand you apologised for this toxicity, however @nade is a sensitive guy and takes some things to heart. I'm not saying he is upset or crying his eyes out, he just dislikes any form of disrespect. Which in the end, everyone does.

I'm going to leave this as a grey area and disregard this only due to what you said in OOC towards him, to me it seems to make up for popping your tires.

Second incident: Nade and Jammi claimed they needed my car to escape a ongoing shootout, and when I called the cops he ended up killing me as he claimed he was already facing 10 years.

This situation to me seems nothing out of the ordinary. As you are allowed to steal cars, and I've already spoken about the 'reasoning' before. I'll carry on to the next situation.

Third incident: Nade sat in my open shop (which was only open because I didn't want to get mugged while crafting) for at least 15 minutes. Afterwards; he proceeds to mug me in my shop while Jammi lockpicks my car for a 3rd time. By this point, I believe I'm being targeted. I send Nade a steam message, apologizing for raging at him in OOC, hoping that this would stop and that we could just be civil about the situation.

This to me, seems like an absolute 200IQ plan from the two of them. You getting mugged in your shop, and a clear distraction from Jamal to get people away from your shop so Nade can slip out easily without being noticed by your friend who killed Jamal. Now, the car robbery was a fail as he died to your friend which is fine, so no rules were broken here just a simple distraction gone wrong. Nade is a patient man, and he waiting for the opportunity to mug you, as he has done in the past many times with @MachineGunO and it's not against the rules to wait to mug someone, it's completely fine.

What rubs me the wrong way is that, you were rude to him in OOC and only decided to apologise when you thought he was targeting you or because he mugged you, so are you even truly sorry for being rude to him?

Fourth incident: Jammi lockpicks my car and gets in. I pull out my phone and begin to text 911. All of a sudden he comes out of the car, not even attempting to say anything to me and breaks 3.4 by killing me. During the sit we had with Super, Jammi claimed he wanted to drive a Tesla for a bit as no one else in the city had one for him to take. Clearly; his org member is sitting in a Tesla right next to mine w/ 4 other individuals, which he could have easily taken for a test drive.

This situation, Jamal robbed your car, which is allowed, and killed you as you threatened his life by calling the Police, and it is a bit iffy I agree, however I believe an apology from @Jamal would suffice for a small issue such as this.


Another thing I'd like to touch on, is what you said in the last paragraph of your AR.

I really hope that someone gets banned from this.

To me, this seems like targeting in itself. You shouldn't make an AR to get someone banned, you make it to report a rule breaker. It really disgusts me when someone makes an AR on people just for them to be banned. At the end of the day, it's a game and people want to play and they do make mistakes as people such as Speedy has or Husky etc. They all deserve to keep on playing, as it is a game. But when it comes to destroying role play all together, yes they should be banned. Here, role play was not destroyed. At all.

In conclusion, I don't believe rules were broken here at all. Other than @Jamal giving a little apology for not taking other actions before killing you, everything nade done is fine and at the end of the day, you've come here to have fun and so have these two. So just have fun.

 

[Jamal]

I even apologized in the sit to him after speaking to Super and him after checking my playstv and seeing that I had not tell him to get off the phone however he wanted to push this AR forward to get us banned

 

[moD]

All due respect, I really don't think the point of stealing someone's car is to start a shootout. I think they implemented the mechanic to actually be able to steal other people's cars to escape a crime scene w/ it and confuse officers. Clearly, as you've said Jammi has been doing this to start a shootout w/ me, baiting me into reacting in some way ICly. Frankly, I haven't seen him do this to anyone else and I've been on the server quite a bit within the past 2 weeks. I didn't ask to look at a black screen for 5 minutes by standing in bazaar. No matter what I do, I'll be shot in killed for no reason. Just like in the second incident, Nade purposely gets out of my car, runs over towards me just to check if I'm calling the cops.

It's just blatant toxicity as there's nothing to gain as I'm not pulling out a gun and fighting back, I'm remaining passive and I'm still being punished for it.

 

[Gimic]

@Super_ was this dealt with?​

 

[Super_]

The situation was dealt with via an admin sit where I concluded from what I reviewed, their actions were fine but I advised moD that to either make a rule suggestion regarding how many times a car should be allowed to be stolen or make an AR if he still strongly believes there was a rule violation

 

[moD]

I think it's quite obvious that Jamal broke 3.4 by killing me when he stole my car in the 4th incident. I think that the punishment is based off of what you decide. Obviously, the 2.5 situation is up for discussion, but for me personally I just felt that it became an ongoing IC meme to break into my car to get a reaction out of me. I've shown the evidence to some people and they felt the same way about how I was being treated ICly and agreed with me that their actions were unnecessary and just plain negative, so I decided to post an AR.

I'll be answering Adrish when I get home if this AR is still open by then.

 

[moD]

First off, I'd just like to state some facts before I go in detail on this response. During the mugging, I didn't lose any items of value that would make me lose my shit over. I don't want to see anyone banned, however, when individuals proceed to push unnecessary negativity on a player it can be very aggravating for that player. Regardless of if it was me, or someone random, I would see the frustration of this happening to them. Looking back at my apology, I can see how it can look sketchy, but I can assure you I don't really have anyone that I genuinely hate on the server and I'd like it to remain that way. For this reason, I put my pride aside, even though I was incredibly frustrated, and tried to reach out and apologize; to which I wasn't even responded to. Although I do agree with some of your points such as the first two incidents are justified, although still highly unnecessary as they had plenty of time to get their own cars or get a pickup from an org member.

I never spoke to Nade prior to these incidents but yet I can't still help but feel like all this was just an attempt to get a reaction out of me, whether it be ICly or OOCly.

The same goes for Jamal. In the fourth video he's clearly trying to trigger me in some way or another, as you can see by the chat log. Lock-picking into my car, getting in it for 2 seconds, jumping out and popping me in the head for calling the cops isn't really justified. I wasn't armed, and I was forced to have an IC reaction. Obviously, I'm not just going to let him steal my car and go for a joyride. So I did the obvious next best thing and I'm killed for it, resulting in me waiting another 5 minutes. The worst part is that he didn't even use my car to escape or anything, he left it in it's spot unlocked, clearly indicating that it was just used to warrant an IC reaction.

All in all, finding an IC excuse to kill someone for doing absolutely fuck all is stupid and toxic. I didn't ask for any of this shit to happen to me and it did; four times over. I wasn't basing and had drugs which other individuals could farm. I didn't have a gun that they could've killed me for and sold. I was unarmed in bazaar, crafting my life away and these two were trying to bait me into reacting ICly.

 

[GringoHead]

I don't want to see anyone banned

I really hope that someone gets banned from this. It's very obvious that these guys are being extremely toxic towards me and are trying to trigger me.

anyways, w/e, you're not getting it any different to others on the server

 

[moD]

you obviously know what i meant by this. Like i said, you guys haven’t done this car stealing shit to anyone else besides me.

 

[GringoHead]

Ask a staff member to check the logs of cars that I've stolen over the past week.

 

[Ayjay]

Spoiler: Logs

 

[Jamal]

@nade You're a fucking hustler

 

[moD]

@Ayjay those logs are post-ar. could you maybe post the logs before may 28th? he hasn't done this as much to me since this ar got posted and surprisingly increased the amount of random cars he's been stealing from other individuals. clearly Nade has some obsession with stealing peoples cars for no reason whatsoever, which i think should be addressed. i believe the evidence speaks for itself really, the two of them had no ic reason to act the way they did and they did so just to trigger me in some way icly and oocly.

half the time, stealing my car wasn't necessary and i think the evidence shows that.

 

[Jamal]

@moD Going to be real with you now, since you're being so petty. You're 22 on the internet crying about having your virtual car stolen when it isn't just you that has had his car stolen over and over again. We don't need a reason to be stealing cars but if it was for a reason it'd be to provoke people to try and do something to us or steal the car so we can get away in certain situations. You need to start counting to ten if you're getting upset over a video game. You make yourself an easy target and complain when something happens to you, like honestly just get a grip. If you have temper issues then don't take it out on us because we're upsetting you by stealing your car, anyways this will be the last thing I'll say until a staff member deals with this. Just want to make my opinion on the AR open to you and what i think.