[DISCUSSION] 'banter' - clarity needed: is it an excuse or not?

[M]

Hello all,

I've created this thread to initiate a discussion on a rather controversial matter. The matter in question is where, usually late at night or influenced by the contagious lack of serious mindset in a few individuals, people violate the server rules with the reason that the vast majority are not concerned by it.

I have seen the issues surrounding these matters first hand, and most others will have too. It doesn't always cause problems, but often there will be a group/individual which is (typically) a minority, that disagrees and wishes to play the server as it is. I am neutral on this matter.

Some questions to ask...

• If, due to lack of players, people are unable to enjoy the server as a roleplaying server - should they be forced to make do, or find something else to play, instead of creating deathmatches etc.?
• Is it really necessary to turn a PERP gamemode into a deathmatch when there's perfectly suitable games out there to do this more appropriately?
• Are these events always unanimous, or do people often behave irresponsibly?

The largest problem is the massive gray area surrounding this issue. These sprees happen rather frequently, and the administrative stance seems unclear. I've seen it actively tolerated by staff in the past, and I've also seen akin events condemned.

I believe that this very specific excuse requires a response stipulated by the administration - is it acceptable or not? This will, in turn, prevent any generally good members from receiving record tarnishing punishment due to what is unfortunately an abundant gray area.

A specific example exists here:
https://perpheads.com/threads/ar-on-jordi-anfy.14727/#post-106556

What are your thoughts?

 

[I3RANIUM]

I don't think this should be blamed on players but on the different responses they get, this admin says banter is allowed during empty server, this admin says no banter at all. Very confusing there should be a solid banter rule on when and if we can banter or not.

 

[rogue]

I suppose it works if there aren't a sufficient amount of players on the server to actually roleplay properly. However if someone regardless thinks that you're breaking the rules then proper action should be taken anyway. Rules are rules at the end of the day and we should all abide by them.

 

[Walker]

My opinion on the matter is that if someone wants to have some fun they can, as long as it does not disrupt any one elses roleplay. For example if you are punching eachother or fucking about in parker it should be fine, but don't complain if the police come knocking.

 

[Imperial Watch]

My opinion on the matter is that if someone wants to have some fun they can, as long as it does not disrupt any one elses roleplay. For example if you are punching eachother or fucking about in parker it should be fine, but don't complain if the police come knocking.

The whole problem with people just fucking about in parker though, is what happens after the police come knocking... Then all of a sudden you have a whole police raid and people are starting to question what triggered it all and it becomes a huge shouting match in LOOC and OOC and it just causes way more problems for all parties involved than it should.

 

[joey]

I do have to admit, it can make playing so much fun just to have some banter. But, the problem is that sometimes people will go over the top or, as of the action request this branched from, someone will take it to high severity in there response. If it is allowed, which I would prefer, people must be explicitly sure that they are not disturbing anyone else in the area, yet, people should be expected to inform people if they are disturbed by it and ask them to stop in a polite manor; avoiding any heartache and salt that may be produced.

 

[Mathias]

Personally I find that banter is fine as long as all parties agree to it and it doesn't cause any harm what so ever to people that DO want to roleplay. Banter is not something to take out in public places like the PD. It should at all times be kept within a private property unless there are little to no players on the server.

Personally, I feel that @GraveDinosaur can explain his in huge detail as he's for me a very good individual to explain this.

 

[Riekelt]

 

[Minilarro]

As most know/agree on by now, banter is okay if all parties consent. But if your banter somehow affects someone else, such as banter in parker leads to LEOs arriving at the scene to investigate. Then it should be taken as serious roleplay, and something like "it was banter" shouldn't be used as an OOC excuse. If one fails to keep the banter away from people who do not consent to it, it's as simple as playing it out in a serious manner. If someone banters about on their own property and it ends up with them being raided for valid IC reasons, they have themselves to blame. Noone else.

 

[joR]

This is it, literally it. The issue is, people seem to ASSUME consent, take a look at this video and you'll understand consent (@Chrissy @Chris @LordTyla) This s actually about sex and consent, but imagine it in our terms .

Honestly a good idea making this thread, I came on yesterday night and there were 30 players on, three unnamed individuals were prop pushing each other with chairs around the intersection with people questioning why they were doing it in OOC, their excuse "Oh it's just banter." People need to realize that this isn't a valid defence. The reason people shouldn't be 'bantering' with random people on the server is that potential new community members might be joining the server, the last thing we want them to see is this (roleplay is bad enough ) Back in day, I remember, valid bantering time was when all involved people were in the Team Speak channel/in a private place where nobody can see.

 

[MrAaron]

See my argument is people like Tom Hill who are branded for banter and you don't take them seriously that one time because a majority of the time they just mess about.

I don't know if you understand what I mean but...

 

[Puffy Sandvich]

Banter should only happen in a manner that can harm, and or negatively affect another player's experience if both parties are okay with it, and the player count is less than 10, making it very difficult to properly roleplay. However, in the event of an Action Request being raised because of a "banter" situation, I do not believe that banter should be used as an excuse.

 

[Jeffer Cake]

Reviving this shit, this is a really grey area which staff need to in my opinion take into account.

The amount of AR's I've seen in the past on people which was clearly just banter but someone recorded it and wanted to get their AR's up is so dumb. Everyone needs to realize that there is a difference between breaking the rules and having a laugh with a mate. The amount of times I've been cop and one of my mates has came up to me and punched me, knowing that they would be breaking 3.4 is unreal. I could probably go through my demo history and get half of the respected players in the community banned for breaking little rules which was just banter. Which I of course wouldn't because I never told them to stop.

However what I have a problem with is when people never tell you to stop in LOOC, or say that it's affecting their RP, and then go and make an AR. Because let's be honest, just like the AR made on me a while ago, from a demo you could just see me punching a cop outside the PD, but in game you could clearly tell we were both just playing around, and it turns out in that very moment someone decided they didn't like me so they make an AR.

I think that the whole 'banter' concept and other rules which are very vague, need to have a set guideline which staff can roughly follow. Just like the PD punishment laws.

Staff just need to all be on the same page about it, but not the same word; I still believe in admin discretion.

 

[Death Howl]

There is no excuse for breaking the rules at all no matter what you have to say. Banter should only take place if everyone is aware of it and there is no possibility of effecting RP. Why else do you think it mostly takes place in the shoutbox and teamspeak. We all like a laugh but lets not break some rules for it they are in place and must be followed and respected.

And if people still after this thread believes that banter is a good excuse for breaking the rules I better make myself a banter pass then.

 

[Murtsley]

There is no excuse for breaking the rules at all no matter what you have to say. Banter should only take place if everyone is aware of it and there is no possibility of effecting RP. Why else do you think it mostly takes place in the shoutbox and teamspeak. We all like a laugh but lets not break some rules for it they are in place and must be followed and respected.

And if people still after this thread believes that banter is a good excuse for breaking the rules I better make myself a banter pass then.

This guy is on point.

When it passes midnight and everyone goes off, some users will still remain for banter. Not gonna lie, I'm included in this. Notice though, every time I start messing around, I ensure that no one sees me do it so that I don't affect anyone's roleplay situations. If you are messing about and you die, don't expect a staff member to revive you (Not our job, not our prob) I don't like seeing reports come up saying someone's failrping and then when I pop over it's one of my friends joking around, it's not fun for me, ad it's not fun for you when I have to issue bans/warnings

If you're gonna partake in banter; go for it, but bare in mind:

> People may still report you.
> Staff members will always side with the people that report you.
> It's your fault if you get punished.
> Staff members that do enforce rules when it's 'banter time' aren't Nazi Mods (@LEWIS 088 and myself), but people doing as they're meant to.

At the end of the day, we're a serious roleplay server, whether you like it or not.

 

[ToeRag2k6]

I find that players that are not know that much or at all to other players have a big disadvantage because when there is a LT or Sargent that is known and the players that are known they commit such stupid crimes that clearly no one trying to stay out of jail would do but then the police are given some weird excuse and get a way with it and they both leave laughing were if I was to do it I'd be arrested fined and jailed without them even listening to you I find this one of the most annoying things on the server

 

[MoronPipllyd]

Bit late #revivingoldthreads. Banter as far as staff is concerned was clarified in the staff section a few months back, as far as the staff team side of it goes we now maintain a zero tolerance attitude towards using Administrative powers for 'banter'. I guess I'll make a thread in the public area clarifying how it is seen for users also and making sure everyone is on the same page.