New players and ban duration

[Jack Bruhross]

So as we all seen last year the server was in a huge slump its nothing we can disagree with. This is no disrespect to anyone or any staff members. With efforts going around server wide from Tiny and the rest of the DEV team to people like @Efan putting efforts into the community as the new manager. But, as of recent I have been seeing a huge trend in some of the recent bans. These bans are not aimed at any certain staff member but just a general talk about it. Some of these bans make no sense at all for a new player to be given Ill explain this below.

New player joins the server sets up a base.
New player dies hits a red screen (This currently means nothing to the player since in his eyes hes dead)
Player leaves the server - Gains 12 hour ban
New player now doesn't rejoin the server because he doesn't know what hell is going on.

As much as we can all say "we are getting loads of new players who cares" This shouldn't be the thought process, nor the action taken.
Ill paste a few bans below



Player
Sandro
Reason
3.20, 3.25 - Harvested 2 planter boxes and a chemical table of processed cocaine then disconnected during a raid on the property.

STEAM_0:0:95509480


New player joins the server in a base. Dies in the base and logs off. Never been warning before nor banned. First ever punishment, Gains an instant ban. Surly explaining the rule to this user.

Player
Zvro.
Reason
3.4, 4.1,1.1 - User did a drag race around the map and ran away from me in the sit. User then told me to kill myself. NITRP.
SteamID
STEAM_0:0:160728028


The last punishment this user had was in 2020 March. Yes he said "kill yourself" But lets be real here its the internet do we really care what other people are saying offensive or not? I am sorry If I am misunderstanding but this should not cause such a long ban surly a short ban would be a lot better to give.

Player
Desmond
Reason
3.4, 4.1, 1.1 - User was disrespectful in a admin sit, and took part in a drag race as medic.
SteamID
STEAM_0:1:569882168

This user has a single warning 2 minutes prior to this ban for the same reason the only added on part is 1.1. I am not sure if this is a warning/ban for the same rule break since I don't think the person would be able to break these rules a second time along with breaking the disrespect in the sit. This yet again doesn't seem like he is due a ban due to his record being next to clean.



My opinion.
So I do think in some cases long bans are in order but in these cases alone are just wrong. For some reason certain people just do not get long bans I could name them but that would be causing drama. But, there are currently members in the community with over 26 bans on record along with one hell of a lot of warnings. This player still only gets 2 and 3 day bans. Why should someone on there first punishment get a longer ban than someone with 30 bans? It makes no sense. Yes I will point out like I said above there are some reasons that should be longer and some that just shouldn't.


Throughout this whole thread I have avoided given names of the people I am talking about (the banning admin ETC) to not cause any drama so I would like it to stay this way. This thread is not here to call people out or just cause a shit fest.

 

[Blocked]

It's bizarre to see staff members punishing new players the same way they punish veterans and sometimes even worse, I don't know what's been going on the last 2 weeks but multiple of my run-ins with staff members has been over some of the most trivial and non-issue stuff whilst actual important issues get ignored and swept under the rug.

Rather than banning new players instantly and turning them away from the server, would it not be easier to explain to them what they did wrong and suggest they give the rules another read? There's no doubt that it would be easy to discern which players joined the server with the pure intention of trolling and those who joined and would love to stick around, the server has a rough learning curve but it's the playerbase and most importantly staff members jobs to smoothen out that curve.

 

[TinySlayer]

Desmond is not a new player, in fact he is an alt account of a cheater! He has been permanently banned, so thank you for bringing him to my attention.

 

[Jack Bruhross]

Desmond is not a new player, in fact he is an alt account of a cheater! He has been permanently banned, so thank you for bringing him to my attention.

That is a completely valid and fair ban. But without this being apart of the "new" ban reason are you able to see somewhat of the point I am trying to make?

 

[money]

Player
Sandro
Reason
3.20, 3.25 - Harvested 2 planter boxes and a chemical table of processed cocaine then disconnected during a raid on the property.

If he got the point of knowing how to use planter boxes and chemical table to process cocaine he knows about the rules. He knew what he was doing. Ban deserved.

Player
Zvro.
Reason
3.4, 4.1,1.1 - User did a drag race around the map and ran away from me in the sit. User then told me to kill myself. NITRP.
SteamID
STEAM_0:0:160728028

Encouraging suicide out-of-character should be a permaban in my opinion. This is a slap on the wrist.

Player
Desmond
Reason
3.4, 4.1, 1.1 - User was disrespectful in a admin sit, and took part in a drag race as medic.
SteamID
STEAM_0:1:569882168

Violated by tiny.

 

[TinySlayer]

That is a completely valid and fair ban. But without this being apart of the "new" ban reason are you able to see somewhat of the point I am trying to make?

It's difficult to comment accurately without knowing the full context of the bans. Only certain amounts can be written into the ban reason and there is a lot of other information that may or may not exists in comments, logs or videos.

However, "no intention to roleplay" bans used to be permanent, which is something we stopped doing a long time ago. Generally players that fall into that category just come back the next day/week and do the same thing again.

That said, I know this has been discussed internally, so I'm sure an administrator will respond in detail at some point.

 

[Bnjemann]

If someone comes onto the server with the sole intention of virtually hurling shit into every fan he see's by randomly attacking or ramming other players then they should receive a ban as they quite clearly aren't here to play properly. Players who misinterpret rules typically are dealt with through more lenient methods. Players who join and obviously haven't read the rules should (And typically are) Given opportunities to familiarize themselves with the rules.

Some of these listed bans do raise a few eyebrows obviously.

 

[Jack Bruhross]

It's difficult to comment accurately without knowing the full context of the bans. Only certain amounts can be written into the ban reason and there is a lot of other information that may or may not exists in comments, logs or videos.

However, "no intention to roleplay" bans used to be permanent, which is something we stopped doing a long time ago. Generally players that fall into that category just come back the next day/week and do the same thing again.

That said, I know this has been discussed internally, so I'm sure an administrator will respond in detail at some point.

The fact you responded with accurate information is nice of you. As you said some of the info isnt always given (Yes I can see this) And as for this "violation" you gave me about the ban evader. This is something the banning staff member didn't know at the time. Meaning I took that player as a base player nothing more nothing less. As for the No intention to roleplay" Yes I know the perm was removed ETC but I think some times this is still used in the wrong way. Yet again I will say im only saying this from a players point of view. In the end of my thread I asked not to turn this into a shit fest but yet I have multiple people "OH TINY VIOLATED YOU" just makes no sense at all. Yet again I will say thank you for your response and I would love to hear some of the opinions given from the other staff members for this.

 

[joey]

I think a few people are looking into exactly what bans were mentioned by jack when that's really not the point of the post. There is a risk that newer players aren't guided properly. However, the staff team has been making efforts to be coherent on how newer players are treated, which is great.

 

[Jack Bruhross]

I think a few people are looking into exactly what bans were mentioned by jack when that's really not the point of the post. There is a risk that newer players aren't guided properly. However, the staff team has been making efforts to be coherent on how newer players are treated, which is great.

I am glad you can use your own head and understand what point of view this post is for. Its not the fact "these are the STUPID bans" These are the bans I took from the first page of scam bans. Looked into the warnings and past warnings and seen they dont make much sense.

 

[joey]

I am glad you can use your own head and understand what point of view this post is for. Its not the fact "these are the STUPID bans" These are the bans I took from the first page of scam bans. Looked into the warnings and past warnings and seen they dont make much sense.

I guess some bans can seem worse at face value, esp if you weren't there for the sit and whatnot. But I do agree sometimes there are harsh punishments.

 

[rogue]

in my opinion there is a fine line between being ignorant to your rule breaking actions, versus breaking the rules on purpose. Warnings to me are more of a record than a punishment, which is why i uncommonly banned people in my moderator days.
You can't teach people how to play properly by banning them

 

[.....]

If someone comes onto the server with the sole intention of virtually hurling shit into every fan he see's by randomly attacking or ramming other players then they should receive a ban as they quite clearly aren't here to play properly. Players who misinterpret rules typically are dealt with through more lenient methods. Players who join and obviously haven't read the rules should (And typically are) Given opportunities to familiarize themselves with the rules.

Some of these listed bans do raise a few eyebrows obviously.

just like you on ZARP

 

[Bnjemann]

just like you on ZARP

This is slander, I am a true roleplayer on zarp

 

[John Daymon]

Since I've been a staff member I can speak out of my own experience

My bans were very varying since I brought in what I had seen from the player before, if I had seen a player be an absolute troll before and told him to stop without giving him any punishment I'd make the ban a longer one since he obviously doesn't care about the server rules.

If I however had not seen the player do anything beforehand and it's an obvious mistake; I would either just slap him with a warning or a short ban.

So for example;
John Doe joins the server, trolls like a fucking idiot - I tell him off. I see John Doe being an idiot once again - Longer ban
John Doe joins the server, tries to roleplay and makes an honest mistake - Shorter punishment

People don't seem to realise that staff members often let situations go, I mean I've been in countless situations where I've done stuff by mistake and apologising to the affected player has been fine and I'm certainly not a new player by any means.

 

[blackdown]

I brought up this exact topic in our Admin meeting today. We are well aware of the community's view on the staff team and the recent punishments that have been handed out. For full transparency, we are going to be directing the staff team's punishments to be more aggressive with experienced players who intentionally break rules. What we want to specifically cut down on is punishments for rules that were broken on accident or because the player wasn't aware of the rule. Rather than punishing these rulebreaks, we are going to be attempting to educate these players on how to not break rules and become better integrated on the server. One example that we will be addressing is not banning people for disconnecting while unconscious who have never been banned or warned for it before.

Again, we are trying to make the community as user friendly as possible and a good environment for newer players. Furthermore, we as a staff team really appreciate feedback like this as it helps us to see where we can improve from a community point of view.

 

[Dom_]

I made an announcement to all staff reminding them of this issue 38 minutes before this thread was started. In short - being more lenient on newer players however ensuring a punishment is given so they learn (warnings given instead of bans, short bans if necessary). I think recently this has been an issue all of us have been overlooking and it is great that you've brought this up, however, I believe we've already begun tackling it.

 

[Kempotent]

I made an announcement to all staff reminding them of this issue 38 minutes before this thread was started. In short - being more lenient on newer players however ensuring a punishment is given so they learn (warnings given instead of bans, short bans if necessary). I think recently this has been an issue all of us have been overlooking and it is great that you've brought this up, however, I believe we've already begun tackling it.

send proof

 

[Efan]

send proof

It’s true, my brother is the announcement.

 

[Kempotent]

It’s true, my brother is the announcement.

send proof