The things i don't like about perp

[Slayerduck]

This ain't no topic for beef, i genuinely want to see these things improved and therefor i won't be just pointing out the shit i don't like but also a suggestion on how to fix it. Feel free to comment if you have a different way to fix certain points!

1) Transparency
It bothers me that there is no transparency between staff and players. When there is a dispute or report the staff has to carry the same face and information is always withheld. When in doubt you get screamed at 'staff discretion' and that ends the conversation. Why can't all information be open to the public?

Every staff member is a human being and therefor should be able to publicly express their opinion REGARDLESS OF WHAT OTHER STAFF MAY THINK. Staff is not the borg.

2) Staff discretion
Ohhhh boy do i hate this fucking word, its used in every way to make a player shut his face and is NOT HELPING. Staff discretion is suppose to give a staff member the freedom of punishment or course of action but its now more widely used to give warnings for rules that don't exist or give players punishments much higher then they should be.

What ticks me off even more that also involves staff discretion is warnings or bans given regardless of player input. A example of this is @Archibald, he did a sit for me where i reported a few cops for just letting me die when i screamed 10 times for a bandage. The sit unfortunately turned into a wrong turn and it caused a mugger to be pulled into the sit (KEEP IN MIND I NEVER REPORTED HIM) and he was warned for mugging me when i repeatedly over 4 times asked him NOT to be warned. This is absolute aids and does not help the community at all.

When i see a sweater run across the intersection i call him the n-word then if I'm on route i prob tell him not to run across the intersection like that. When i see some players break 3.4 by trying to knive me as a cop i laugh my ass off and have a great time, i asked @ShadowJoey to take them into a sit where i specifically asked within the report to not warn them. I ONLY wanted to explain them that this is not acceptable within the community even though it was hilarious roleplay. They were absolutely awesome guys, we had a chat and they learned and were put back down.

Now you can see by the two example above that there are 2 ways to enforce these rules, below picture is provided for entertainment purposes. I'm not calling any staff nazi's thank you.

What would you rather have? Personally i am in favor of the arma-style warning way where people HAVE to talk to each other first to resolve the issues. This way significantly decrease the amount of player report and beef in this community.

3) Mod quota?
This reminded me when i saw @Rogue Car Tyres demotion. Surely we don't know all the details on why he was demoted (*cough* point 1) but is this really a thing? Do mods have to reach a certain amount of warnings or ban to stick as a staff member? Because that's really despicable in my opinion.

4) Pointless beef AR's/Hate reports
This has been brought up many times before so I'm not going to dwell on it to long. There are a few times i was involved in these reports or AR's where a person wasn't even involved at all but made an AR. Or for example the first ban i got going now, @Fasool made a funny gif of us fucking around in the bazaar and while everybody had a great time a random person who apparently can stay anonymous made a report on teamspeak and i got bannad over the holidays. I'm sure a lot of people can relate with this.

Keep in mind I'm not saying all reports are bad, if for example your RP was ruined by someone yelling on the top of their lungs to police while under gunpoint or gagged its perfectly acceptable to take that person to the roof and have a chat about it

Brings us back to how to solve this, again the arma-style talk-it-out-first would be a massive improvement over what we have now. Also i feel that if a player has ZERO involvement in a situation a report should be automatically denied, the same way as you can't comment on reports.

5) Final thoughts
I put a lot of time, effort, and money into this community and i hate to see it go to shit lately. We need to change as a community and not let it run down the river the way its going at the moment.

While i can't play right now duo to my ban i wish you all the best and happy holidays, thanks for reading my thoughts!

 

[Deleted member 5920]

Ur banned what are u doing here. Oh wait .

I hate Staff discretion as well cause it basically translates to, if you piss an admin off then he can ban you over a rule that is too loosely defined. For example some rules are banable depending on what the admin interprets you were thinking, which is extreme loop hole IMO.

 

[Swiper]

Pretty cool post (apart from sliding your valid warning in lol), constructive points raised which numerous other members of the community fail to do when bashing the community. It's good to discuss things like this and shouldn't be something people should shy away from, people need to respect people's opinions, especially when they're presented like this. I hope you mentioned these things in the Community Survey (https://perpheads.com/threads/perpheads-community-survey-open-discussion.22556/) as some of these points have been brought up as well.

 

[joey]

Although I feel that staff discretion does bring a much more natural approach to handling reports, baggers really has a point. Now it's pretty much needed for me to say that I would not always let someone off just because the person they "hurt" doesn't want them warned but in most cases it seems really sensible, implying that the reported person is respectful, understanding and apologetic as I feel that punishments aren't always needed even if a rule was broken. Before I go on a rant stating why I do this I should just let you know that this is MY opinion and many other staff members may disagree with it. Even though some staff members may be more strict than me or I may be more strict than other staff, please understand that we're not "the Borg" we will differ in some strictness and how lightly we take things. Carrying on, I have my methods as I feel meaningful conversations will, more often than not, leave a better and more positive impact and a reported person as they feel comfortable to actually ask more about what they've done and admit to athings that could have got them in trouble, hence learning more.

Anyways, thank you @Slayerduck for actually vocalising this opinion on a very respectful and sensible manner.

 

[Slayerduck]

please understand that we're not "the Borg" we will differ in some strictness and how lightly we take things.

I'd like to explain the reason why i put in a borg meme, its because to the public at the moment you MUST carry the same face. Even if its clearly not the case from your perspective i can not ask any staff member on steam or TS regarding any AR or BAN that was done by a different staff member. This creates the illusion that all staff members have the same face.

 

[Adrish]

Pointless beef AR's/Hate reports

I couldn't agree more, this is still currently quite a problem within the community (in my eyes). For a long time it wasn't acted on, until @Chris brought it up:

For Reports
If you feel that someone is not playing by the rules, submitting a report usually gets you the help you need. This may become less possible over this season, so there are other steps you can take:

1. Still submit the report, so that a staff member can consult you when available.
2. Try and settle it yourself, after the situation has concluded, ask if the party in question would kindly meet up ingame to discuss what happened, or do so on our TeamSpeak (IP: perpheads.com). Be civil and do not make any outright accusations in global OOC. If a party recognises that they've behaved inappropriately, they may offer their apologies and even compensate for lost items.
3. Take evidence, submit it on the forums. It would be a good call to install a DVR like plays.tv especially over this period, but if you cannot do this, there is a useful guide on how to review your automatic server recordings (demos).
4. Most of all - be good to each other!

This was brought up, and I (believe it or not) actually acted according to this. I submitted a report, where I was told to create an AR, over a 3k ticket. However it was too petty, so I added @BlueGamer200™ on steam and sorted it out. I doubt I would've sorted it out over steam, if this wasn't here. I reckon this just shows, that after a staff member reaches out to us, we act on it.

However this is still quite a problem, especially when admins discuss something privately, and is then enforced on the server without us knowing about it. This has happened quite a few times, and if a post was made about it, I doubt there would be as many problems about new rules being put in.

There is a lot of change yet to occur, and it is changing. But not as fast as it could.

 

[Imperial Watch]

The staff discretion part I partly agree and disagree with. You have to consider that sometimes people have been talked to before which you might not have known about or part of their record suggests they have done stuff like this before and therefore it would be difficult to create standardized punishments for people that have broken the rules to various degrees in various ways. But I also do think sometimes it goes too far for things that could have been a sort of gray area or misunderstandings could have occurred.

4) Pointless beef AR's/Hate reports

Breaking the rules is breaking the rules, although I do think obvious beef AR's should be looked at for what they are, a cheap and slimey way to get back at someone when things don't go your way.

And the "Mod Quota" you are thinking about is most likely regarding reports and not bans / warnings. Just throwing out what I think it might be.

 

[John Daymon]

3) I have to reply to this as it has created some so called in the community with certain things happening around it, no, this is not how it works, you don't have to reach a certain amount of bans or warnings on the server to remain a staff member, we have a report count that gets given out every week and there you can see if you've done above average, lower than average or if you've just been average, now the only reason that @MrLewis or @Bolli would ever look into warnings and/or bans is if the report count is low as you're a staff member and you signed up for dealing with rulebreakers(which includes doing reports), if your report count is consistently low with you being active on the server obviously this is a way for them to look at; okay this staff member has a low report count does he still deal with rulebreakers in other ways? If he does obviously he still deals with rulebreakers and still performs his duties but not fully, he will then be requested to do more reports as after all he has the position of moderator where you're requested to do so if you've signed up for it.

Now the reason for Rogue getting demoted is obviously not just because of his inactivity, there are many factors coming into play in this demotion and not only reports. Now you "linked" 1) together with number 3) which I don't understand, it's up to the person who's actually been demoted if they wish to go out with it or if they wish to just go by it as if they resigned as we don't wish to shame anyone, it usually comes out to everyone that they then have been demoted as if we look on @LordTyla where he said he resigned but then admitted that he actually was demoted.

Anyway, no please just trying to explain from my perspective

 

[rogue]

Like Fredy said:

We'll not disclose the reason of Rogue's demotion since we also haven't disclosed it in any other case. It's simply a matter of resepct

nice spelling there.
It's not their call to tell people why. It's all a matter of resepct. If I want to say then that's fair enough.

but it's nice to see an open ground to see concerns about general doohickeys. There is obviously a fine line to where people can go before they're evicted from the cool kid table in the cafeteria.

 

[MidoTheCigar]

One thing I wanna understand is why I got shoutbox banned for posting spoilers, mini told me it was because that my intention was to cause problems, while there was another fella who got Sb banned for spoiling, and they told him it was cause of 2.5. And I was never told to stop posting spoilers. (Just expressing my feelings)

 

[Chase]

There's problems in the community? Haven't noticed. Mod quotas? Who cares? Those are quotas are on (REPORT HANDLES) no bans need to come of it, and no warnings need to come from it, that is all handled by staff discretion as you said. If you're doing below average as a staff member with your report handles I firmly believe that there is an issue there. It's business, the higher ups obviously want reports being handled, if a mod doesn't want to handle a report or wants to role play more than do reports then he/she can be a regular player like the rest of us. While being in the staff team you have a obligation to do reports and help players out. It comes with the job, you do less RP and more work. That's my view on demotions. Now;

What ticks me off even more that also involves staff discretion is warnings or bans given regardless of player input. A example of this is @Archibald, he did a sit for me where i reported a few cops for just letting me die when i screamed 10 times for a bandage. The sit unfortunately turned into a wrong turn and it caused a mugger to be pulled into the sit (KEEP IN MIND I NEVER REPORTED HIM) and he was warned for mugging me when i repeatedly over 4 times asked him NOT to be warned. This is absolute aids and does not help the community at all

What? Maybe that mugger has a history with being reported for mugging others and breaking rules doing so. This is where staff discretion comes into play. You may not want anything to happen to that offender but if he broke a rule it probably should be documented, after all he didn't receive a ban right?

 

[Fredy]

It bothers me that there is no transparency between staff and players. When there is a dispute or report the staff has to carry the same face and information is always withheld. When in doubt you get screamed at 'staff discretion' and that ends the conversation. Why can't all information be open to the public?

Clearly that's not true. Usually when you report someone you get a reply stating what action is or isn't going to be taken.
When you make an AR or a ban/warning dispute you get a decision by the admin dealing with it.
Staff complaints are obviously private as they often contain sensitive information and protect the person posting it from possible bias by the accused staff member.
Can you even articulate exactly what you mean by the lack of transparency? Because I have absolutely no clue what you are on about. It is very obvious that not all information should be available to the public. I just don't even see how this point makes any sense.

REGARDLESS OF WHAT OTHER STAFF MAY THINK. Staff is not the borg.

No one is stopping them from expressing their opinion. There is literally no staff member going around other staff's profiles and checks if they are in line with the "right" opinion. The reason why you don't see staff making statements about situations is because they represent the server. If their opinion is wrong then they might set a wrong precedent for example when they might not fully know the situation because of misrepresentations or similar things. Especially in this community this can get out of hand very quickly, just think to yourself how many times has a community member said "But staff X said that I can do Y" as defense?
Then you will understand why they are very reluctant to make these statements.
Furthermore, it's just not nice to potentially screw over your colleagues in particular when you might not know their side of reasoning.
I think all of this is quite obvious but it's very easy to ignore these aspects when making a post out of anger.

more widely used to give warnings for rules that don't exist

This is just stupid. Yes the rule says that "Police Barricades and Cones" are excluded from the rule but it is very obviously only meant to be allowed for police. Congratulations you have found a loophole in the rules. Since loopholes and incompleteness of rules are unavoidable it is completely acceptable for staff members to give you a warning even if it didn't technically break any rules when the rule was clearly intended a different way.

The sit unfortunately turned into a wrong turn and it caused a mugger to be pulled into the sit (KEEP IN MIND I NEVER REPORTED HIM) and he was warned for mugging me when i repeatedly over 4 times asked him NOT to be warned.

It is completely irrelevant if you reported the mugger or not. What matters is whether or not he broke the rules and how much it affected other players. It is not up to you who gets punished, it's up to the staff member.

Do mods have to reach a certain amount of warnings or ban to stick as a staff member? Because that's really despicable in my opinion.

There's never been a ban or warning minimum. Staff members are expected to carry their weight when doing reports though. It is completely fine for them not to do their share for a few weeks as long as they do most of the time. If they don't they get a warning long before anything happens and if they then still fail to improve, demotion might happen.
But it should obviously be noted that I will not disclose or discuss the reason why @Rogue Car Tyres was demoted.

 

[Slayerduck]

Clearly that's not true. Usually when you report someone you get a reply stating what action is or isn't going to be taken.
When you make an AR or a ban/warning dispute you get a decision by the admin dealing with it.
Staff complaints are obviously private as they often contain sensitive information and protect the person posting it from possible bias by the accused staff member.
Can you even articulate exactly what you mean by the lack of transparency? Because I have absolutely no clue what you are on about. It is very obvious that not all information should be available to the public. I just don't even see how this point makes any sense.

I never gotten a reply stating what action will be taken during a report? Usually i improvise and request an action if possible but that normally doesn't work out well. Lack of transparency, lets see... When reports are handled have players argue within a staff channel about their case? Right now its one staff member in charge of the AR asking suggestions to other staff? Also why would demotions be classified information? Sensitive information? Give me a break, this is a gmod server its not like you're NSA.

No one is stopping them from expressing their opinion. There is literally no staff member going around other staff's profiles and checks if they are in line with the "right" opinion. The reason why you don't see staff making statements about situations is because they represent the server. If their opinion is wrong then they might set a wrong precedent for example when they might not fully know the situation because of misrepresentations or similar things.

There is, i can't ask any staff members opinion on cases. They all tell me off so clearly its an issue?

It is completely irrelevant if you reported the mugger or not. What matters is whether or not he broke the rules and how much it affected other players. It is not up to you who gets punished, it's up to the staff member.

How is it irrelevant? The mugger mugged me, there is no other players effected at all but somehow i have absolutely no say in the matter even if i didn't report him? Sounds seriously broken to me? Action should only be taken if it disrupts roleplay for a group or if reported by a party that's effected in the situation.

There's never been a ban or warning minimum. Staff members are expected to carry their weight when doing reports though. It is completely fine for them not to do their share for a few weeks as long as they do most of the time. If they don't they get a warning long before anything happens and if they then still fail to improve, demotion might happen.

Thanks for clearing that up, glad that this is not a thing.

This is just stupid. Yes the rule says that "Police Barricades and Cones" are excluded from the rule but it is very obviously only meant to be allowed for police. Congratulations you have found a loophole in the rules. Since loopholes and incompleteness of rules are unavoidable it is completely acceptable for staff members to give you a warning even if it didn't technically break any rules when the rule was clearly intended a different way.

Only allowed for police? I had no idea, i admit that on that case i was fucking about but in the past i also used barricades as a civ to create false crime scenes for ambushes and raids. Might wanna change this rule before more people use the 'loophole' then?

I think all of this is quite obvious but it's very easy to ignore these aspects when making a post out of anger.

What do you mean with this? Are you implying i made this post out of anger? Even if you disagree and dumb rate all my posts its clear that the majority of the community does see these points as an issue.

 

[Fredy]

When reports are handled have players argue within a staff channel about their case?

That's simply impossible. There's around 200 reports every single day (if you meant ARs the same argument applies). How do you expect staff to deal with every single of those reports on the Teamspeak when it's much easier to just do so ingame? And don't try and counter this with the argument that only some of them should be done on Teamspeak. Well guess what, everyone thinks they are the most important case, it's unfortunately just not feasible.
I also fail to see how this is proving a lack of transparency since you do always get a reason why your AR was denied or accepted. Please state exactly what you mean by the lack of transparency because otherwise your post is not constructive at all. I simply won't act on a mere feeling of a lack of transparency.

Also why would demotions be classified information? Sensitive information? Give me a break, this is a gmod server its not like you're NSA.

That's a decision we made. The staff in question might have served us for free for a very long time and just recently started to get out of hands. Why would I then go ahead and make a post describing how bad of a person they were. Not only could this potentially start a witch hunt but also hurt the ex staff member even though they served the server for so long (unless they did something that warrants otherwise).

There is, i can't ask any staff members opinion on cases. They all tell me off so clearly its an issue?

I can't really verify the veracity of your claim. Every time I have asked a staff member their opinion they gave me their opinion. But maybe that's just because I'm an owner and not a regular player.

Action should only be taken if it disrupts roleplay for a group or if reported by a party that's effected in the situation.

I disagree massively. You shouldn't throw around absolutes like that without thinking about the consequences.
Someone running across the highway usually doesn't affect anyone but we still stop them and talk to them. This might seem like a bad idea to you but clearly breaking that simple rule is an indicator of them not caring about the rules. That gives the staff the prime opportunity to properly introduce them to the server and explain how we actually do take the rules seriously here.
Furthermore, just because you might not care about what happened to you in the situation other players might have a different opinion if it happened to them. It very well might be the best option to tell the player what they did wrong and why as well as potentially punish them. Otherwise they might find themselves confirmed in their ways (because an admin didn't do anything about it) and actually negatively affect someone else in the future.

What do you mean with this? Are you implying i made this post out of anger? Even if you disagree and dumb rate all my posts its clear that the majority of the community does see these points as an issue.

I am not merely implying it I am stating it. You made at least two posts already about how everything is bad now, which both involved a clear personal motif behind them. I will not try and challenge your arguments with that but it's always important to know the motivations behind a person's actions.
Furthermore I really do not care about popular opinion. An argument stands on its merits and not on how many people are supporting it. It's always incredibly easy to get people riled up about the "bad" and "evil" administration team that is only trying to screw over the players and ruin their fun.

 

[Thomas DeSimone]

I don't understand why a ban or non-verbal warning is always necessary, if someone in a sit/AR denies they did anything wrong when they did do something wrong, it's usually not carefully explained to them or the rules aren't clear enough for some including me to understand. If someone gets banned and they don't think it was valid they're going to make an apology thread to get their ban shortened regardless. Just because I have a couple of bans for 3.4 doesn't mean if I were to get another that I would have broken the rule intentionally, if someone is confronted about breaking a rule and they own up to it, they should be let off as long as they don't repeat the exact same action within a year or so.

Spoiler: And for the parts of the rules that aren't clear; 2.5 and 3.4 for the most part, I'll put an example for each one.

3.4 - Killing someone in public, many people seem to think or say that killing/gunpointing people in public is against the rules under 3.4, but I have been told indirectly by @Xquality in OOC that it's not against the rules, yet I've seen a few people with bans that have the reason being they allegedly broke 3.4 by killing someone in public no matter how carefully they did it, and regardless of the outcome the killer had.

2.5 - I was once told like before, indirectly by the late @Rogue Car Tyres that mugging someone, and then /me raping them is 2.5, when I see no way a couple /me's maliciously harms someone IC if they weren't offended by the RP OOC.

And the final concern of mine is when you aren't sure of the rules and you have to ask a staff member, because when you get the answer and you RP by that conduct a different staff member can have a completely different view and are eligible to give you a punishment regardless of what you've been taught by another.

 

[Slayerduck]

That's simply impossible. There's around 200 reports every single day (if you meant ARs the same argument applies). How do you expect staff to deal with every single of those reports on the Teamspeak when it's much easier to just do so ingame? And don't try and counter this with the argument that only some of them should be done on Teamspeak. Well guess what, everyone thinks they are the most important case, it's unfortunately just not feasible.
I also fail to see how this is proving a lack of transparency since you do always get a reason why your AR was denied or accepted. Please state exactly what you mean by the lack of transparency because otherwise your post is not constructive at all. I simply won't act on a mere feeling of a lack of transparency.


That's a decision we made. The staff in question might have served us for free for a very long time and just recently started to get out of hands. Why would I then go ahead and make a post describing how bad of a person they were. Not only could this potentially start a witch hunt but also hurt the ex staff member even though they served the server for so long (unless they did something that warrants otherwise).


I can't really verify the veracity of your claim. Every time I have asked a staff member their opinion they gave me their opinion. But maybe that's just because I'm an owner and not a regular player.


I disagree massively. You shouldn't throw around absolutes like that without thinking about the consequences.
Someone running across the highway usually doesn't affect anyone but we still stop them and talk to them. This might seem like a bad idea to you but clearly breaking that simple rule is an indicator of them not caring about the rules. That gives the staff the prime opportunity to properly introduce them to the server and explain how we actually do take the rules seriously here.
Furthermore, just because you might not care about what happened to you in the situation other players might have a different opinion if it happened to them. It very well might be the best option to tell the player what they did wrong and why as well as potentially punish them. Otherwise they might find themselves confirmed in their ways (because an admin didn't do anything about it) and actually negatively affect someone else in the future.


I am not merely implying it I am stating it. You made at least two posts already about how everything is bad now, which both involved a clear personal motif behind them. I will not try and challenge your arguments with that but it's always important to know the motivations behind a person's actions.
Furthermore I really do not care about popular opinion. An argument stands on its merits and not on how many people are supporting it. It's always incredibly easy to get people riled up about the "bad" and "evil" administration team that is only trying to screw over the players and ruin their fun.

I'm not going to argue every point right now as its time for my daily nap but i can assure you that there is absolutely no anger behind any of my posts in this topic. These are simply legit concerns and there really isn't any personal gain i could get from this topic? The OP had example with things that happened to me but thats because i have a stronger memory of things that happened to me personally. These are only examples, some people will relate to these with their own experence. This isn't a shoutout against the 'evil/bad' administration either, its one against our ways of dealing with things! There are times when we don't have to act harsh, punishments should only be given for repeated offenses and always listen to the reporting party's request. If everyone always gets a ban or warning when i just want to talk to them regardless of what i ask in the report i might as well just stop reporting. We could educate our fellow players without the need of a staff member. If we can reduce the amount of reports and AR's then everybody is a winner, more people playing and staff can handle other reports with more care. By starters i created a discussion post here to see what the rest of the community thinks about this.

 

[Fredy]

I'm sorry Slayerduck but what am I supposed to do with this post. You claim that you "won't be just pointing out the shit i don't like but also a suggestion on how to fix it" but clearly that's not the case.
You can't even tell me in what specific way the staff team is lacking in transparency, so that is 1) already out of the window.

In 2) you try to show the difference between two ways of handling reports but how am I supposed to know if the staff in question acted correctly when you don't even give a full description of what happened. Not only that but just giving two examples isn't enough. Staff can always be wrong because they are just human (that's why we have ban appeals and staff complaints). What matters is if the vast majority of reports are dealt with correctly.

3) is nothing wrong with the server but pretty much just speculation of what might be wrong if we did have that ban/warning minimum (which we don't). Why put it in a post called "Things I don't like about perp" when it's not something that's even true?

4) has already been pointed out and I agree with the conclusions.

In 5) you claim that the community is going to shit but you haven't really shown how since all of your claim (except for 4)) lack the substance behind them.

So now explain to me how this post is at all constructive and anything other than just beef. I am literally sitting here and wondering what positive actions I can possibly deduce from this post? I mean I don't even fully acknowledge that there are the problems that you describe. It seems like all of this post just condenses down to 4) which might be a valid point but why make this beefy post about it. It's fine that you have your own opinion and you have the right to have one but don't expect me to take your opinion seriously if you can't back it up with facts and good reasoning.

If everyone always gets a ban or warning when i just want to talk to them regardless of what i ask in the report i might as well just stop reporting.

Clearly that's not true as you have already given an example when exactly that did not happen. The other situation is still impossible for me to judge since leniency might not have been warranted.

We could educate our fellow players without the need of a staff member. If we can reduce the amount of reports and AR's then everybody is a winner, more people playing and staff can handle other reports with more care.

You can already do that. That's pretty much the specific purpose of the help chat, to help and educate your fellow players. I would not however trust any regular community member with being an authority on the rules. That's what staff are there for who deal with it all day long.

 

[Slayerduck]

1) I already explained that one of my biggest issues with this is the fact i can't ask staff for opinions on running or closed matters, you said its no problem for you but that's pretty obvious because you ARE the staff member.

2) Two examples isn't enough? The two situations is what happened to me personally. To be honest i don't really report (or get reported) a lot so there isn't many examples i can give you. The point here is though that i feel that if i only wanted to talk to a player and try to put them on the right path at this current time it impossible because staff can override my request and give the player a warning or ban. I feel like especially with newer members its better to not go as harsh on them as we do right now because that will eventually lead into a better community. Take myself for example, i got a really big playtime and my record is pretty damn clean. I wasn't thrown any warnings or bans when i started out but instead kindly talked to by @GraveDinosaur

3) Already cleared that out, it was just a rumor so I'm happy that that's sorted. The reason i put this on the list to begin with is because of my examples in 2), i felt as if staff would need to warn to stick to a quota but that's clearly not the case as you explained.

4) Okay, made a suggestion for this to so lets see where that ends up.

5) Pretty sure that nowhere does it say i have to provide proof to make a point? I took some examples that happened to me and people can relate with this from their own experiences. Sure, some people would make reports and AR's only to get rid of their enemy's but not everybody is like that.

You can already do that. That's pretty much the specific purpose of the help chat, to help and educate your fellow players. I would not however trust any regular community member with being an authority on the rules. That's what staff are there for who deal with it all day long.

You can not have a serious conversation over help chat that involves a situation and pretty sure you don't want to see that in OOC either. No regular member has to be trusted with rules themselves what I'm suggesting is that the two party's talk with each other before trowing accusations and AR's at each other.

Clearly that's not true as you have already given an example when exactly that did not happen. The other situation is still impossible for me to judge since leniency might not have been warranted.

How is this not true, i was mugged as a sweater and when i made a different report and a mugging came up into the convo the mugger was then pulled into it. He was then told it was not acceptable to mug a new player but when i asked within the report ticket and in LOOC during the sit that i rather not have him warned it was rejected and ignored. Pretty sure his record was spot clean to, there was no need for a warning.

EDIT:
I saw @Youseff just drop an agree on one of my posts. This reminds me of the warning i got back on 2016-03-05 from him. There was a situation where zack was beating the crap out of me as a cop, basically abusing me. When i tried to talk to a supervisor they ignored me so IC an option to stop the abuse from him coming to my shop for another beating was to car bomb him (keep in mind i don't think at that point in time i knew that DNA sticks on car bombs, pretty unrealistic). We went to a sit where we talked stuff out afterwards and we both agreed no warnings should be given as we felt it was appropriate action. Keep in mind during the sit i went lenient on Zack and did not tell youseff he was basically abusing his position as a cop and nearly beat me to death several times. The sit ended with @Youseff saying 'rules were broken, so punishment must be given' regardless of the fact we talked it out. Zack afterwards tried hard to get the warning revoked but to no avail. I never really made a dispute for this because of the sole reason i didn't want zack to get warned to.

Like i said before, things that happen to yourself tend to be much stronger memory but people will relate with their own experiences. If instead of a sit me and Zack went on TS and had a chat it would have worked out just fine and we wouldn't have wasted youseff's time either.

 

[M]

I have a massive problem with the general prejudice against warnings.

Warnings are not publicly disclosed: only being available to available to administrators and recipients, and to others in certain exceptions (such as Police Department vetting). It is totally rational to keep a record of what interventions have taken place with a player, to ensure that they are taking advice seriously and learning from their mistakes and omissions, malicious or not.

They have no other impact on the recipient than, logically and rightfully, influencing future corrections such as bans/blacklists, and aiding in the selection of decent Police Officers and Enforcers.

On the other hand, if victims of a rule violation express strong forgiveness for the actions, or they seem like an honest mistake, a warning will more often than not be issued rather than the ban. It is still important to record what happens as a factor of good communication.

If, for instance, a new player receives a warning for running along the highway, this has no bearing on anyone else or the new player for that matter - unless they decide to do it again, because contrary to popular belief we do not have an abstract view on warnings as a 'number' - they are always checked for content, context, and time of issue if they are to have any bearing on any decision, and therefore, any administrator is going to exclude particular warnings from consideration if they are not relevant in some way.

And no 'correctional quota' exists. None. Stop imagining things.

 

[Fredy]

1) I already explained that one of my biggest issues with this is the fact i can't ask staff for opinions on running or closed matters, you said its no problem for you but that's pretty obvious because you ARE the staff member.

And that has NOTHING to do with transparency. You claiming that it is and then making people who read your post think it is is more than intelectually dishonest. Please refrain from doing that in the future.
I already answered why staff might not always answer your questions so just reread my reply to that.

Two examples isn't enough?

No it's not. Especially not when you go and make a beefy post like this and then go around claiming it's constructive criticism instead of drama.

He was then told it was not acceptable to mug a new player but when i asked within the report ticket and in LOOC during the sit that i rather not have him warned it was rejected and ignored.

This reminds me of the warning i got back on 2016-03-05 from him.

So your entire evidence that there's bad behaviour going on is someone receiving a WARNING? Please give me a break...
I think Chris' response sums that up pretty well.

5) Pretty sure that nowhere does it say i have to provide proof to make a point?

You DO have to provide proof for me to take your post seriously. Otherwise I'm just going to disregard it as the beefy drama post it clearly turned out to be.