Rule Suggestion (3.5 New Life Rule)

[Jack Bruhross]

Suggestion Topic: 3.5 New Life Rule
Suggestion Description: Add a longer nlr period for cops, Currently during in raids on the server it is extremely hard to raid. There are far to many cops to deal with before you can deal with the defenders inside the house you are raiding. Ill give some examples below.

Yesterday while raiding a projex apartment it appeared to be 12 people inside, This alone is a hard task to deal with due to limitations of bombs and floorbanging/raiding. ontop of this we had to deal with around 15+ cops. By the time you manage to take care of the cops they are already coming back as a unlimited number. Yes I understand cops should be "op" But if a big org like my own cant raid I am almost certain (newplayer) john tim stands no chance at all.


I am open to other suggestions/inputs on this suggestion and I also recall @Efan a while ago poling if 5.3 was going to be changed (flanking your own raid as a crim). I think this is a huge problem and needs to be changed.

Why should this be added?:
- Gives everyone a fighting chance.
- Quality of life
- Make solo raid/raiding in a small group possible.
- Adds more balancing.
- (will add if suggested)

What negatives could this have?:
- Crim have ak.
- Crim have as50
- Cops wont be able to play deathmatch and run in aiming to only kill one before dying.
(willing to add more if suggested)

 

[Fielding]

Give cops between 7-10 minutes to return to an active crime scene atleast.

5 minute timer after respawn is too op imo, this is what i see as a cop main.

Id be willing to try out a slightly longer timer, just to see how it plays out. Idk about how it will work though.

 

[Jack Bruhross]

Give cops between 7-10 minutes to return to an active crime scene atleast.

5 minute timer after respawn is too op imo, this is what i see as a cop main.

Id be willing to try out a slightly longer timer, just to see how it plays out. Idk about how it will work though.

I was suggested an idea by @sidd to add a timer that changes with the amount of cops/people online. But I dont think this would work due to people going off/on duty constantly during raids

 

[Clarky]

Increasing cop NLR to 10 minutes is probably the easiest and most suitable method, I also assume it isn’t difficult to have this exist in code too

 

[Goonsberg]

I think that increasing the NLR timer is better.

This would encourage the use of a dispatch & DNA to find suspects.

Jamie and his big group of pals do a raid, kill cops, kill defenders, get sweet sweet loot, the dispatch and medics organise data and crime scene to hunt the baddies down. - which is how it should be (cops should be OP yes but not invincible army).

 

[Sindarin]

This has been suggested several times, and the same arguments always come up, essentially the argument against is always,

Why are you staying at a base for long enough that cops can respond after 10 minutes after death?
I was doing a raid yesterday and we wiped all of PD, they only had enough time to return because we STAYED in the area to burn the bodies costing a ton of time, time we should have spent escaping realistically to survive

I agree with the above argument, and the NLR timer I think should remain the same

 

[rxsm]

This has been suggested several times, and the same arguments always come up, essentially the argument for is always,

Why are you staying at a base for long enough that cops can respond after 10 minutes after death?
I was doing a raid yesterday and we wiped all of PD, they only had enough time to return because we STAYED in the area to burn the bodies costing a ton of time, time we should have spent escaping realistically to survive

Start raid - cop instantly turns up causing you not being able to get into the apartment straight away - kill cops - begin raiding the apartment - kill defenders - after killing defenders first couple cops start respawning - after killing first couple cops the rest respawn

 

[Jack Bruhross]

This has been suggested several times, and the same arguments always come up, essentially the argument for is always,

Why are you staying at a base for long enough that cops can respond after 10 minutes after death?
I was doing a raid yesterday and we wiped all of PD, they only had enough time to return because we STAYED in the area to burn the bodies costing a ton of time, time we should have spent escaping realistically to survive

You have avoided my point completely. What I am saying in my post is by the time you wipe the civs inside and the cops outside the cops are already back and respawned. This would be the main point for increasing the timer and giving everyone a chance.

 

[Eric Jonson]

Your supposed to be quick get in and get out. This will only cause issues as people won't value your life anymore which is part of the rules

 

[ALOO89]

Your supposed to be quick get in and get out. This will only cause issues as people won't value your life anymore which is part of the rules

i think you are the best shoting guy in perp but are you sure about wipe the whole plpd (12 cop without tfu atlest ) and 3 defenders in 10 mins and leave ?

im 100% sure you cant do it even if you get 5 good players

 

[Dehmon]

This has been suggested several times, and the same arguments always come up, essentially the argument against is always,

Why are you staying at a base for long enough that cops can respond after 10 minutes after death?
I was doing a raid yesterday and we wiped all of PD, they only had enough time to return because we STAYED in the area to burn the bodies costing a ton of time, time we should have spent escaping realistically to survive

I agree with the above argument, and the NLR timer I think should remain the same

Its really hard to wipe the whole PD at the same time, Lets say for example you can kill a cop every 20 seconds which is an insanely low time. If there is 20 cops online that would take just about 6 minutes and 36 seconds. So now u have 3 minutes and 24 seconds to kill 12 defenders which are all playing safe inside of a Projex apartment. Its definitely not easy to do but its definitely possible, so say u can kill 1 of the defenders every 10 seconds. That will be another 2 minutes. So now you have around 2 minutes before the first cop you killed coming back. In that time you have to move around 12 or more guns, at least 8 planters. I don't think that its possible.
Even though these times are very quick because normally sometimes it can take more than 30 seconds to kill 1 TFU.

Your supposed to be quick get in and get out. This will only cause issues as people won't value your life anymore which is part of the rules

It is not possible to get quick in and out when cops go for suicide plays. If I actually want profit for a bomb its not possible to go quick in and out if there is 6 or more defenders + 20 cops trying to kill me. Cops literally just rush in with a sole purpose of killing one of the raiders because in the long run it will be worth for them as crims cannot come back to their own raids after dying.

 

[Dom_]

This has been suggested several times, and the same arguments always come up, essentially the argument against is always,

Why are you staying at a base for long enough that cops can respond after 10 minutes after death?
I was doing a raid yesterday and we wiped all of PD, they only had enough time to return because we STAYED in the area to burn the bodies costing a ton of time, time we should have spent escaping realistically to survive

I agree with the above argument, and the NLR timer I think should remain the same

there are 26 max cop slots on full server, I dont even want to calculate how many kills you expect to happen within this time before the first cops can re-respond, not even mentioning the points made above about transporting drugs and guns - which is literally the point of a raid.

If I could kill 1 cop every like 15 seconds then I think I'd be banned for cheating.

 

[northnortheast]

I'm neutral on this suggestion, but there's a few factors to consider that would need to be addressed if this suggestion were to be implemented, such as:

• How does this scale during medium or low population? The Police Department is supposed to emulate a well-staffed and ready to respond force, if you can shoot the two cops on duty once and be able to do whatever you want for the duration of the raid without a worry, that doesn't exactly scream 'balanced'.
• If there is a PD raid, does that mean that cops cannot respond to any crimes at all for the next 10 minutes? That means that you could essentially do a PD raid in order to get away with any subsequent crimes for 15 minutes, as cops cannot access equipment or vehicles for the duration.
• What are cops supposed to do in the meantime? It is already incessantly boring, especially when not very many are online and you're playing a blackscreen simulator, adding 5 minutes more of staring AFK would not help to encourage people to play as police, which is often under-staffed already during medium population hours.

 

[Kelson]

Your supposed to be quick get in and get out. This will only cause issues as people won't value your life anymore which is part of the rules

You can't really kill all the cops within 5 minutes...

 

[Clarky]

Bring back the dumb rating whilst we’re on this thread because some of you really seem to be living in some sort of false reality lmao

Just because you can finish a raid in a couple minutes doesn’t mean everyone can, this is also a very blunt point to make as every situation is different and unique, one raid could be a quick one, the next can take much longer than 10 minutes. Please start to look at this case by case, because I doubt some of you are touching major criminal activities when there is 20+ police online and probably on duty being part of the problem here.

The system is old, the rule has not been touched in a long time, times have changed where PERP is gaining 100+ players which has had a big impact on the structure of the server as it was not expected to have this many police online compared to when the server had a max player limit of 80 (if lucky) or sometimes even less than 60.

 

[Clarky]

What are cops supposed to do in the meantime? It is already incessantly boring, especially when not very many are online and you're playing a blackscreen simulator, adding 5 minutes more of staring AFK would not help to encourage people to play as police, which is often under-staffed already during medium population hours.

We are not asking for their death timer to be extended and you shouldn’t be waiting upon that timer as a cop (and under the NLR rule itself), instead you should be committing the department’s time into something else until you are available to be dispatched to the same situation, should it have been long enough and still ongoing.

 

[Dom_]

The idea that you can finish a raid, killing all the cops and defenders in a property, transport drugs/weapons, and escape from the camping TFU snipers holding a doorway, or a swat van camper, or even pistol snipers is crazy and quite frankly ignorant as fuck. The majority of you who are replying with this idea have played here for long enough to understand this and if you don't then go and raid something as a crim and see how it ends up.

 

[Kelson]

I'm neutral on this suggestion, but there's a few factors to consider that would need to be addressed if this suggestion were to be implemented, such as:

• How does this scale during medium or low population? The Police Department is supposed to emulate a well-staffed and ready to respond force, if you can shoot the two cops on duty once and be able to do whatever you want for the duration of the raid without a worry, that doesn't exactly scream 'balanced'.
• If there is a PD raid, does that mean that cops cannot respond to any crimes at all for the next 10 minutes? That means that you could essentially do a PD raid in order to get away with any subsequent crimes for 15 minutes, as cops cannot access equipment or vehicles for the duration.
• What are cops supposed to do in the meantime? It is already incessantly boring, especially when not very many are online and you're playing a blackscreen simulator, adding 5 minutes more of staring AFK would not help to encourage people to play as police, which is often under-staffed already during medium population hours.

How does it scream balanced with high population for crim players then? If we are talking balanced, then how is it balanced to have 24 cops against like 6 raiders on average? There are constantly like 3 tfu officers and 10 + pistol cops on when the server hits the peak. Some of the raiders will probably die to the defenders inside, but the cops and tfu will be a huge pain in the ass for them... Not to mention that they will come back within a few minutes after they respawn

 

[northnortheast]

We are not asking for their death timer to be extended and you shouldn’t be waiting upon that timer as a cop (and under the NLR rule itself), instead you should be committing the department’s time into something else until you are available

Neither am I under the impression that you are. The point is that I wager about half of the situations where police will be wiped will occur in the bounds of the city (PD raid, bank robbery, regals/slums/office raid, city hall attack), so in these fairly common cases, the officers are unlikely to be able to leave the city safely without passing through their NLR zone, or getting in the line of fire whilst attempting to reclaim their vehicles.

Albeit these do not make up all of the situations possible, and in some cases what you suggest would be entirely viable. However, it would significant enough to acknowledge the fact that in these cases officers would have to wait for even more time, when the point of the game is to play and have fun rather than stand around.

Perhaps this could be solved by offering alternative spawn locations for police equipment and vehicles, such as at the fire department or the city hall, provided that the officer has an ongoing NLR timer.

Refer to my previous point:

you could essentially do a PD raid in order to get away with any subsequent crimes for 15 minutes, as cops cannot access equipment or vehicles for the duration

 

[Bnjemann]

If there is a PD raid, does that mean that cops cannot respond to any crimes at all for the next 10 minutes? That means that you could essentially do a PD raid in order to get away with any subsequent crimes for 15 minutes, as cops cannot access equipment or vehicles for the duration.

This point would be viable if we could just raid PD because we want to wipe out the police force, unfortunately this requires criminals to know their friend is being arrested. Furthermore, the vast majority of expected PD raids are won by police as the PDs layout allows for some very dirty camping tactics I won’t delve into detail on (because I don’t want people to learn from it and kill me from said angles constantly). Even unexpected but detected PD Raids go difficult, as the raiders won’t have the liberty of just being able to hold one angle the whole raid, since the whole point is to escape.

Ill respond to every raised point in this thread soon.